Red Dot scopes, astigmatism and cross eye dominance.

[indie]

okay, i thought strategies and tactics would be the best place to post this given my situation.

i am left handed, and right eye dominant.

I just bought a hi point 995 with a red dot i plan on using for home defense. I havent had a chance to do much other than look at it and check out the red dot briefly this morning.


When holding the rifle naturally against my left shoulder looking through the scope with my left eye, I see a cluster of multiple dots.

when looking through it with my right eye, the single red dot appears just fine.


I have heard that this is due to astigmatism, and i have heard reccomendations that you shoot with your dominant eye, so you learn to shoot with the arm that coincides with the dominant eye.

thing is, i am concerned that switching to my weak arm will give me less control of the gun. I am not very good at doing tasks with my right hand. In a home defense or high pressure situation, i am afraid that it might be a bit clumsy, or that in a struggle a gun could be easier to take from me.

Is there any ideas on what is advised, whether i can condition my arm, or i could learn to work though the cluster of dots and find my point of aim. This will serve a short range (within 25 yards) defensive purpose. And i will practice at these ranges.

 

[ceetee]

There are many, many shooters in the world that are cross-eye dominant. Some learn to shoot backward-handed, some struggle through sighting with their non-dominant eye, but most train themselves to shoot with their strong hand, using their dominant eye to sight with. I don't have your problem, and I'd imagine it would feel a bit funny trying to sight with my opposite eyye, but I've heard that you can train yourself to do it quite effectively.

 

[Fred Fuller]

indie,

Since it seems to be a training issue, I'm agreeable that this is the place for your question. Before we commence to analyze further however, I think knowing a bit more about your shooting experience so far would be helpful. Any formal training, or informal training, that addressed this issue for you previously?

Usually determining handedness and eye dominance are among the first things an instructor does with a new shooter. Since you seem to have the situation identified, you are at least aware of what you have to learn to deal with, and that puts you ahead of the game so far.

lpl/nc

 

[indie]

thanks guys. Lee, i have had no formal instruction yet. I have only been shooting about 4 months now. I have a 4 inch 357 magnum revolver which i have no problems with because i used my dominant right eye to shoot. I just picked up the carbine yesterday and just checked out sighting with it this morning and noticed my vision in the left eye makes the red dot appear to be a cluster of dots.

i feel good so far with the revolver sighting and have done very well in my first several trips to the range with a buddy who is former military/current police officer.

 

[Mr. Ouchie]

I have the same problem with red dots and astigmatism. I modified my red dot a bit and made it much, much better for me. All I did was move the LED element forward until the dot cleared up. Whether or not would be able to do the same thing will depend on your scope and your eyesight though.

 

[Fred Fuller]

indie,

There are lots of articles about the master or dominant eye and shooting, both on the web and in magazines. The one I like best among those I have seen on the web so far is at http://www.totalshooting.com/html/mastereye.html . It's oriented toward shotgun shooters more than rifle or pistol shooters but the basics are useful still, IMHO.

I can't say what will ultimately work best for you, unfortunately. You'll have to give various alternatives a serious try and see which one gives you the best results. Generally I think it's better if 'handedness' and the master eye are on the same side, but there are no guarantees. At least give shooting right handed a serious try, even if it feels awkward at first. Start out with an empty carbine (double check that the magazine is out and the chamber is empty- heck, lock the bolt back for good measure) and just 'get the feel' of the carbine to start with.

Remember to properly adjust your stance and body orientation to shooting from the "wrong" side- shooting right handed, you'll want your left foot slightly forward, left knee broken just a bit, leaning into the gun slightly. I find it easier to run carbines with both elbows down in a 'crunch,' but you might prefer to keep the right elbow up. What's right is what works for you.

Give yourself some time, and see how it works over several days. It takes a few thousand repetitions of any act to begin to 'groove' it into muscle memory so that it begins to approach reflex. No matter which side you shoot from it will take pretty much the same amount of time and reps to 'groove' your gun mount so that everything lines up when you mount the gun. After you begin to get the feel of it, pick a spot in a safe direction and mount the gun with your eyes closed with that spot as the target, then open your eyes and see how close the dot in your sight is to that spot.

Even if you eventually decide to shoot from the left shoulder the time won't be wasted- with any defensive weapon it is better to be able to use it from both sides with reasonable effectiveness. You never know when the only good cover available will force you to expose far too much of your anatomy if you shoot from your 'usual' shoulder, and swapping sides with your carbine will allow you to use that cover much more effectively.

Best wishes on your successful resolution of these things, I hope your friend can help too. Let us know how it goes and what you wind up preferring.

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc

 

[Jeff White]

Have you tried looking through the sight with both eyes open?

Jeff

 

[indie]

Lee thanks for all of the advice. I did start trying to get the feel of handling the carbine from my right shoulder yesterday evening. It wasnt as bad as i thought it would be, but the weight is more noticeable.

Jeff, it still doesnt look right from the left side, but from the right it looks fine. Even with both eyes open. I think i am going to try to adjust to handling the rifle with my right hand. Hopefully i will feel comfortable enough to be confident in a real world situation handling with the right.

i will update on my progress.

 

[dust_101]

Not sure if this will help for your situation with the Hi-Point, but I found the same issue with a red-dot on my AR-15. It looks like the dot has bloomed on any brightness setting when looking through with one or both eyes open. The only fix I came up with was to use my flip up rear sight (red-dot is set to absolute co-witness), the largest aperture did nothing, but the smaller aperture caused my focus to change and the dot went to a normal sized and precise dot.

My only other option (besides using iron sights only) is to invest in contact lenses that correct the astigmatism since my glasses don't seem to do it.

 

[mjrodney]

Indie, I share your plight.

Actually, I've shared it for nearly 50 years now.

With a handgun, I shoot for score with my right hand, left eye.

With a rifle or shotgun, I shoot for score with my left shoulder, left eye.

Today, this right hander in everything else, can't shoot a rifle or shotgun on his right shoulder. With the long gun, I'm a lefty.

I can somewhat clearly remember picking up a rifle for the first time and going back and forth from shoulder to shoulder, settling on the left as being the easiest for me.

Spend a few hours with the stock of a .22 against your right shoulder and you will find it becoming second nature in short order.

 

[indie]

thanks dust 101. I will see how that works as well.

mjrodney. I was just kind of intimidated by the thought of actually having to use my right arm for shooting, which requires such a high degree of control. I'm going to work at it for a few weeks and see if i adjust. Sighting is a whole lot better when shouldering the gun on the right side.

 

[sacp81170a]

I'm in the same boat with you and mjrodney, indie. What I've done is basically train myself to be ambidextrous with rifle, pistol and shotgun. That doesn't mean that I shoot equally well with either hand, just that I'm comfortable with shooting either side with any weapon.

I'm a better shot with a rifle or shotgun from the left, but I'm a better shot with a pistol from the right since I'm naturally right handed. This also gives me a great advantage when it comes to tactical qualifications, since guys who don't practice shooting with either hand have a really hard time adapting when forced to shoot with their weak hand. Learn both ways with every weapon and you'll have an advantage over someone who doesn't.

The drawback is that it takes you twice as long to practice everything and you have to shoot more, but that could be taken as a plus.

 

[chris in va]

Forget the manufacturer, but aperatures that fit on your glasses are available to get rid of the multiple dot problem. I have mild astigmatism and the dot on mine looks like a solar flare, regardless of luminosity setting.

 

[Mr. Ouchie]

This is for home defense, right? Apertures will just slow down your acquisition time and negate most of the benefits of a red dot sight.

 

[indie]

yes, for home defense.

I have been practicing handling and shouldering with the right arm, and its feeling okay...but i will keep working with it until it feels natural.