Red dot scopes - how usefull in very low light?

[fix]

The simple answer is yes. You can see the dot just fine. Target might be another story, but the dot will be visible. Given a choice of being able to see my sights vs. seeing the target, I think I'd rather be able to see the target. White lights are essential to low light gunfighting.

 

[uglygun]

The dot can virtually leap out at you in low light shooting....

This is a picture I took awhile back to show what a co-witness looks like on an AR15 with the backup iron rear sight viewing in line through the red dot optic.

With the rear sight folded down it's less cluttered and the dot is even easier to isolate for quick shooting.


I use a blue tint filter for my Surefire light, the red dot against blue background makes it stand out even more.

 

[Marko Kloos]

One of the reasons why I prefer red dots over scopes on my long guns is the fact that they work exceedingly well for me in low light and darkness.

 

[mrcr0603]

Originally Posted By tc300mag1:
Not worth a Damn excuse the language i have stronger words i would use didnt get a shot at a buck becuse of one couldnt make out the deer from the background with it and me standing in middle of road.

I didn't see it mentioned .... but what brand of sight was this that you were using?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I started with Reflex's, and now have Aimpoint M2's on my AR's.

I cannot comprehend a low/no-light situation in which I CANNOT see the dot in my Aimpoints.

No reflection off the lens to cut out the dot, no weird-??? optic construction to cause any kind of weird sighting problem.

I can imagine though that if you've got a POS dot sight with a F'd Up lens system, then a situation like the one quoted above is going to occur.


Chris

 

[birddog]

{{Was last few mins of daylight and past time i could. shoot at my blind so i headed to truck and heard one moving as i got to truck. couldnt get rifle off back as afraid to spook it. Was able to get 44 Mag out of shoulder holster and try to aim with red dot on setting of one i couldnt tell the deer from the backstop of woods..

The lens are coated to reflect the red dot but that makes them Dimmer even in broad daylight that a regular scope.}}

It was just too dark. A regular scope might have given you a few more minutes, yes, but if you couldn't tell the deer from the woods behind it, it's time to put the gun away and head for home. I shot my best buck -- a 22 inch 8 pointer -- with a red dot in extremely low light, but there is definitely a cutoff point, if only for safety's sake.

 

[tc300mag1]

Your right it was just too dark for the red dot as i said i couldnt make otu the deer thorugh the red do but could with plain eye sight no problem. With out it i would have had anther deer if you hunt till last mins of daylight as i do the red dot dont work for me with perfect vision i know it wasnt me who couldnt see it soon as i lowered red dot i could make out deer well enough to see it had 3 points on one side and at least 2 on other

 

[mrcr0603]

tc300mag1 - What brand red dot sight was it?


Chris

 

[tc300mag1]

Aimpoint or propoint i dont have it handy to check. Ill tell ya for sure after this weekend i left it in My dads shooters box which is at his house

 

[mrcr0603]

Originally posted by tc300mag1:

Aimpoint or propoint i dont have it handy to check. Ill tell ya for sure after this weekend i left it in My dads shooters box which is at his house

Thanks!


Chris

 

[j.wise]

tc300mag1, I must admit I was confused by your first post, but I think I now understand your point of frustration.

If I understand you correctly, the coating on the glass of your red-dot was the problem, not necessarily the aiming point (illumination from the red-dot.) I have a cheap BSA red-dot that is similar, in that it makes everything darker when you look through it. Granted, with both eyes open it doesn't matter, but it would make identifying a target "through" the tube more difficult.

My Eotechs I have on my ARs don't have this drawback. Their lenses are completely clear, and do not darken the target area. However, if it was dark outside, and you had the Eotech set on the brightest setting, I'm sure the illumination from the red-dot (actually resembles a clock-face, not a dot) would drown out the target area and make it difficult to identify the target. As stated, simply dial-down for darkness, and the problem goes away.

 

[MaceWindu]

Trijicon Reflex II

The reflex II from Trijicon is fine in all lighting situations. It comes with a polarized lens that you attach so that the reticle does not wash out in daylight. A simple turn of the polarized lens and whamo clear reticle. No batteries, holds zero, VERY durable.

I have an EOTech 552 also, and its fantastic.


MaceWindu

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The reflex II from Trijicon is fine in all lighting situations.

Try firing from a dark firing line to a target that is being brightly lit (either by a streetlight, headlights, flashlight, room lighting, etc.).

Your reticle will disappear. You can crank up the polarizing filter to make the reticle reappear; but now the lens is darker and impedes your ability to see in low light. It basically becomes an occluded eye gunsight.

 

[fix]

I concur with Bart. The most common scenario where this is displayed is when firing from inside a dimly lit building on a target that is outside in direct sunlight. It is frustrating, to say the least.

 

[MaceWindu]

Whatever...

Well it comes down to what works FOR YOU....Not every reflex sight works for EVERY situation, issues: batteries - moa of the dot - too big - too small, etc.

I have 3 types that I use for different purposes. If someone could come up with one that is perfect for all and have it cost efficient then they would have...

The Reflex II works fine for ME so I bought it, I have never had the problems of which you speak...so I guess I will keep it. As far as which is the BEST....this debate will rage on as a long as the 1911 vs Glock..


MaceWindu

 

[MaceWindu]

Question...

Isn't this why you shoot with BOTH EYE's Open when using a REFLEX sight?

It's made to assist you on a faster target acquisition not for you to come to DEPEND on it alone...correct?

MaceWindu

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Isn't this why you shoot with BOTH EYE's Open when using a REFLEX sight?

Yes, that is what I meant by using it as an occluded eye gunsight. The difference is that an occluded eye gunsight is sighted in with the dominant eye blocked, so the sight is still on target.

With a Reflex (or Aimpoint or EOtech) being used this way, the sight was sighted in with the dominant eye looking through the glass, so you will now have a different point of impact compared to your point of aim. At room distances, it won't be enough to make a difference on an IDPA sized target; but if a partial target or longer distances become an issue, it will create misses.

The Reflex works well for a lot of people; but it just isn't the best sight out there anymore. The military stopped using it in favor of the M68. Even its manufacturer Trijicon has produced the Tripower to replace it. At $441-$517 for a new one, there are a lot of new sights that offer more in my opinion. Try your EOtech and your Reflex side-by-side in the lighting I described and you'll understand my point much better.

Like you said though, if it does what you need it to do and you are happy with it, then that is all you need.