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red dot sights

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by old lady new shooter, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. Odd Job

    Odd Job Moderator Staff Member

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    It's a flat pane of glass (well flattish) and some people acquire the dot on that unit better than in a tube (I am one of those people).
    The other advantage (for me) is faster acquisition and less obstruction of forward vision when bringing the gun up and whilst shooting.
    One disadvantage is these are not magnified. The two I have are 3 MOA dot versions.

    Burris-FastFire-3-300234-Red-Dot-Sight-3-_1.jpg
     
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  2. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    One of the first required you to keep both eyes open. If you closed one, you would only see the dot, close the other and you could only see the target.

    Listen to instructors, learn what they have to offer, then find what works the best for you. I use both, depending.

    The sight on the Glock machinegun in this photo is one of the “both eyes” dots, can’t think of the name though.

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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  3. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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  4. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    ^ that’s it.
     
  5. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    I never noticed a difference between tube and reflex sights as far as speed when I did military shooting. Eotechs and the like were in high demand at the time and I didn't show a preference one way or another. Ended up using Aimpoint CompM4. Payed off 10x over in durability over the Eotech during the next few years.
     
  6. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Top picture is a Bushnell TRS-25 mini “tube” sight, bottom picture is a Vortex Venom “reflex” sight.



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  7. wally

    wally Member

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    The main difference is the reflex are "open" and you look through a small window to see the target with the dot superimposed instead of looking through a "tube". For me it makes little difference, generally the tube type are larger, and less expensive. For some folks the tube is better because "looking thru the tube" helps "find the dot" for others its a "tunnel vision" that draws your focus to the dot instead of the target.

    Well worth trying each type. For rifles I much prefer the tube type, for handguns the reflex type. Except for .22s where the cost advantages of the tube types are compelling.

    I consider the Burris Fast Fire 3 to be the lowest cost (~$250) reflex sight worth trying (unless you get a great return policy from the vendor), whereas the tube type Bushnell TRS or several Primary Arms models are very good for <$100. I even have some $20 tube types that have performed wonderfully on .22lr pistols.
     
  8. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    As much as I like Burris and respect the reputation of the FFIII, when I compared it to the Venom in person and by features it was a clean sweep. The sale price at $180 and Lifetime Warranty sealed the deal.

    Same length and height as Burris, wider lens on Vortex.
    1/2 oz. lighter than Burris.
    Better battery life than Burris from same battery (both top change)
    More windage and elevation than Burris.
    Better brightness control than Burris.
    Less expensive than Burris.

    Now if a tube style turns out to work better, the Bushnell can be had for under $50 on sale, more for an AR appropriate model, but for that application I’d suggest a Sig Romeo for a few dollars more.



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  9. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Are all the reflex dots not magnified?
     
  10. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    The reflex sight does look like it would be easier to get the sight picture with.
     
  11. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    All red dots are not magnified. Can go down a rabbit hole and some tube red dot optics are 1 point some insane decimal times magnified (where 1X is standard non magnification). Red dots can be magnified, typically around 3X, by putting a magnifier behind the red dot on something like an AR with plenty of rail space.

    I am getting my first optic capable pistol in just a few days. And I am already leaning towards the Venom and the Sig Romeo Zero optics.
     
  12. hps1

    hps1 Member

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    I shot service rifle competition for years and was taught shooting both eyes open (iron sights) was advantageous. Had previously learned to shoot as a kid and just naturally had done so closing non-dominant (ND) eye, so had to "un-learn" that "bad" habit. Found it easiest to do so with the opaque tape on left (non-dominant) lens. Before long, I no longer needed the tape, but that was with young, healthy eyes.

    We learned that squinting the ND eye places a bit more strain on the D eye, and I believe that to be true, but if you must, squinting the ND eye, while contributing to eye strain when shooting long strings, does not, IMO, affect accuracy for shorter shot strings. So, close the ND eye if you must, it shouldn't be all that big a problem. After shooting both eyes open for so many years w/irons, it was easy to transition to shooting both eyes open w/scopes.

    When my eyesight began to deteriorate and I could no longer see iron sights, had to hang up my favorite service rifle and shoot front & rear aperture in order to continue to compete, but missing my old Garand, motivated me to mount an optic on it, starting out with the Burris FFII. That was better than irons, but the dot was not perfectly round, so put a Millett (tube) red dot http://www.millettsights.com/scopes/sp-series-red-dot/ which gave me a sharper dot on the rifle but still no magnification, the need for which increased with time. Finally found the Primary Arms 3X prism scope. https://aimsurplus.com/primary-arms-3x-compact-prism-gen-ii-scope-w-acss-5-56-reticle/

    The reticle is a bit busy, but does a lot of neat stuff once you get familiar with it and it was designed for mounting on an AR.

    Regards,
    hps
     
  13. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    That is very useful information, thanks! :)
     
  14. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    I've never been able to shoot with both eyes open. Don't worry about it.
     
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  15. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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  16. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    What do you use on your AR(s)?
     
  17. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    That is incorrect most are under 2. but anytime you put multiple planes of glass together you are going to get magnification.
     
  18. hps1

    hps1 Member

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    Have never used a magnifier. Assume magnifier placed behind the red dot would increase the size of the dot as well as target. If that is correct, would magnifier mounted in front of red dot keep dot size smaller while magnifying target?? Reason I ask is that was one of the issues I had with the Fastfire when shooting paper, dot so close to eye covered more target than I liked.

    Regards,
    hps
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  19. kenboyles72

    kenboyles72 Member

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    This is how I have my AR's set up. I have tried regular scopes, but I shoot more accurate with irons. I have a decent RDS absolute co-witnessed with my irons, so it basically just illuminates the ball on my front sight post.
     
  20. entropy

    entropy Member

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    You'll either have to shut the left eye or use some sort of occluder, be it tape, black-over lens, pirate patch (ARRRRGH, matey!) or whatever method you choose. Your AMD in the left eye is most likely what's causing the the distortion when using both eyes; the drusen is an added aggravation. FWIW, I scan with both eyes open with a red dot or peep sights on an AR, but shoot with the eye the same as the shoulder the gun is on. (I shoot off both shoulders) I mostly shoot off the right shoulder, and am left eye dominant. My left eye is shut when I shoot off the right shoulder.

    You look through the red dot sight, not at it. That red dot should be 'floating' on the target.

    Incorrect. You may get magnification, but they can be ground to cancel out any magnification. Don't believe me? Look through a pair of optometrist's loupes, a +3.00 Diopter one and a -3.00 Diopter one. The resulting magnification is zero, or as commonly known, 1x. Your choice of words using 'planes' of glasses is interesting, considering a 'plano' lens is the industry term for a lens with zero power throughout the entire lens, generally understood as a lens with a front curve and back curve both of 6, with the surfaces being on the same parallel, that is no induced prism. It can however refer to a lens with zero power throughout the entire lens with any base curve, as long as the corresponding back curve is identical and they are parallel.
    Poorer quality optical instruments are more likely to have unwanted magnification from poorly finished lenses.
     
  21. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    A2 iron sights.

    I've got a pistol grade dot sight, but neither of my uppers is a flattop, so it doesn't get much use.

    I no longer have a decent place to shoot a rifle, so I haven't shot one in years.
     
  22. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I know one person isn't comparable to another but I'm curious what distance you can shoot accurately using the iron sights. I did try just looking through the ones on a different AR last time I was at the range and was pleasantly surprised that I could see better than I expected.
     
  23. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Nope. Red dots are far closer to 1X than they are 2X. Took a long boring afternoon one time and determined that Aimpoints are well below 1.1X.

    That is correct. Magnifier placed behind the red dot will make the dot larger. The larger the dot (3 MOA vs 6 MOA for example) the more you notice. But it maintains accuracy. Placing the magnifier in front of the red dot would keep the superimposed dot between your 2 eyes the same size. But negatively affect accuracy.
     
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  24. hps1

    hps1 Member

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    Lots of variables beyond the shooter there. Most folks don't realize just how accurate iron sights can be. Scopes only assist the shooter in seeing his/her target; irons can be shot almost as accurately as a scope, given correct size target to aim at. While this 3" spotter is not visible @ 600 yards w/naked eye, it is placed in each consecutive bullet hole in the 36" aiming black which is clearly visible at that range.
    34900899614_7cb2846652_w.jpg
    Regards,
    hps
     
  25. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    I came into the military at the weird "golden era" where red dots were new, untrustworthy, and we still shot with iron sights. The site at the time was the Aimpoint CompM2. Battery life was terrible so practicing with backup iron sights was important and crucial. I know one soldier whose battery died on a range qualification and he completed the course using his backup sights, just as they were intended. The backup sights of the day, then and now, are Matech rear sights to work with the A2 front site.

    https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...15-usgi-backup-iron-rear-sight-prod26575.aspx

    To answer your question, I was rather comfortable shooting 300 meters with iron sights. Had red dots not been introduced, I likely would have still gone to DM school shooting iron sights out to 600 meters. The Marine Corps qualify at 500 meters for their qualification. Many variables come into play such as caliber and shooter ability. Give 2007 me an AR with irons and shoot 300 meters on a 12" target, I would laugh and score perfect. Now? I wouldn't be able to from lack of practice.
     
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