Redding Titanium Dies and Dillon 550

[Carphunter]

I had been working up some 10mm loads and found I was getting pressure signs at much lower powder charges than seemed right.

I thought I had been overcrimping the cartridges, or had set the crimper in such a way that it was hanging onto the cartridge as the press arm dropped, and stretched the case.

Well, further investigation leads me to believe the problem(s) occurs much earlier in the process.

For info, I'm running a Dillon 550, Redding titanium carbide decapping die, Dillon powder stand / expander-beller, Redding titanium seater, and Redding taper crimp. (I'm not using the Redding expander).

I think at the decapping / sizing die stage, the brass is getting the pulled look.

If you look at the pics below, you'll see that from about where the expansion ring would be, up towards the mouth of the case, the dimensions of the brass are narrowed (kinda like a figure eight, or like pulled taffy). The case then expands where the bullet is inserted

Now, I'm going to start examining my setup, and give Dillon and Redding a call to see if I'm doing something exceptionally wrong...

But, is there a common reason for brass getting like this? Lack of lube on the die or something?

I'm also wondering if the Redding expander in the die set fully opens the case mouth, and bells the rim for bullet insertion.... or if it's only a beller like the dillon funnel. I ask because if I do not crimp, I can not push the bullet into the case with thumb pressure (something I think I used to be able to do)

I've read the Redding setup instructions again...and they're not telling me much.

 

[ARperson]

I had this problem with some 9mm. I did not have my sizing die down far enough.


Something caught my eye about titanium cuaght my eye. Is this the decapping die only, or is it the decapping and sizing die.

I ask, because titanium only has about half of the elastic modulus as steel. That means it will deflect more under the same load/pressure. I also don't see the advantage to titanium over steel on die set. Not begrudging your choice of dies, more begrudging a Redding marketing plow.

Titanium is more expensive, with about half the stiffness.

I would still check your sizing die to make sure it is down all the way.

 

[Carphunter]

I've been playing, rereading the instructions, etc.

Cleaned the sizer, and am trying to re set it up. They use the same sizer for 40 s&w, and 10mm... but for 10mm, you're supposed to back it off 1/8" from shell plate.

Well, I've been playing with that, and seeing different results on the case. I actually think it might do better sizing all the way down to plate... but who knows, that might be the problem in that it's stick on brass near the rim that's thicker than the rest of the wall

I want to talk to them tomorrow to see if there isn't more to this than I'm catching on too.

 

[Carphunter]

Played with it more... not really sure that it's stretching or pulling brass...or if that's an illusion caused by resizing the expansion ring back to spec.

 

[Carphunter]

Just talked to Redding... I think what I'm seeing in the case as far as the "stretched" look is more an optical effect of the brass. Since I'm firing these in a glock, I have to set the die to push all the way through the expansion ring area, and even down to where the web of the case is thicker (making the bright band near the base).

After talking to them, i think i don't have my beller/expander set quite right, which is giving me to tight a case mouth.


Gonna play with it some more this afternoon.

 

[DILLONHELP]

The Dillon powder funnel on the RL550 both expands the case neck as well as flares the case mouth. Suggested flaring is .010" larger than a sized, unflared case.

 

[Carphunter]

I know I'm getting some belling...but I want to check what I'm actually getting for case mouth expansion below the bell.

Do you know what i.d. the Dillon funnel is supposed to create in the mouth of the case?

 

[Claude Clay]

ID .403 measured at case middle
belled mouth OD .440

 

[Carphunter]

I know the belling is adjustable. What I can't check from here, though, is if it has an expander plug, then beller (like the redding expander) or if it only bells (which is what I think it does).

talked with Dillon... it is an expander/beller. They couldn't tell me what i.d. the expander should make the mouth, though.

I'm going to measure it tonight and compare to the Redding expander.... just fmi

 

[Carphunter]

After playing with everything... I think I've got it all set up... and should get better luck with my aa#7 loads.

But... I do know something I'd like to change.

Currently, the expander on both the Dillon funnel and the Redding die don't go as deep into the case as I'd like. They both need more expander before you reach the belling part of the shaft.

Why? Because they size the case to a certain depth for i.d.... but the base part of both 180 FMJ and 180 XTP will be placed deeper into the case than the expander has expanded.

I could set the whole expander deeper, but it would really make a flared bell (and still wouldn't be deep enough for the bullet base).

I'll call around after the holiday to find out if anyone makes an expander like I've described.... or may just talk to people I know with machining stuff and see if they'd want to try and move the belling shoulder back a bit.

 

[Norm Lee]

Looks about right to me. You might not have your size die as far down as it can go. Hard to tell. The size die should squeeze your brass diameter to the point where you'll get good neck tension accounting for varying brass thickness. When you seat the bullet you'll see its outline in the brass. The coke bottle shape ensures against set back.

Cheers

Norm