Reduce Trigger-Pull Weight?

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John

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What are the pros and cons of reducing the trigger-pull weight on a Smith & Wesson revolver?

I am age 73 and had not fired my revolver during the past few years during which I have been subjected to multiple major abdominal surgeries. When I finally got back to doing some shooting with my revolver yesterday, I had difficulty with the trigger-pull weight -- weak trigger finger.

At first I thought about switching to a semiautomatic -- which I would have to purchase, as the revolver is the only handgun I now own. Then it occurred to me that perhaps I could get a gunsmith to lighten the trigger-pull.

Advice, please?
 
I have a friend who is basically in the same boat. Sadly, and expensively, he found that he couldn't rack the slides of most semi's due to his inability to grip the slide... he needs 'ears' on them just to grip them, due to his arthritis. He is much more fond of his revolvers, even his new Taurus 66 - after the spring change.

The problem with a S&W spring change is simple - most folks overdo it, resulting in too weak of a hammer strike on the primer, causing some 'failure to fire', possibly at a very inconvenient time. This can be alleviated by using Federal primers - or, if you don't reload, Federal ammo, as they have 'softer' primers. Even changing the OEM leaf spring in a S&W K, L, or N-frame revolver to the Wolff full power hammer leaf spring will help - changing to a lower power trigger spring will help some more, and at no penalty regarding primer hits. The J-frames use a coil spring for the hammer, and are a bit different. A decent gunsmith should have no problem changing them in any recent S&W.

Stainz
 
Sir; I'm assuming you mean double action pull weight. There are gunsmith's that can achieve a sub 8 lb. pull with functional reliability-but they are scarce. The main drawback to a lightened double action is the gun failing to fire (too light hammer fall). This can be helped by choice of primers (usually Federal). If the intended purpose of revolver is recreational, potentially spotty reliabity is no big deal. If the gun is for self defense, it needs to go "bang" every time. D&L gunsmith's, "Cyl. & Slide", Andy Cannon and others can do the work you inquired about. FWIW; a single action "auto loader" would be a way to go-especially with diminished hand strength. By "thumb cocking" the hammer, the slide can be cycled fairly easily-trigger pull weight will be in the 4-5# range. You might consider a 1911 or P-35. Good luck.
 
Thanks for the information.

I will not have the trigger weight reduced, as the purpose of the gun is home defense.

Perhaps I'll go shopping for a semiautomatic.
 
You didn't specify what model of S&W revolver you have, and it can make a difference. The small J-frame revolvers have coil mainsprings and scaled-down lockwork that make lightening the action while keeping reliability dificult. The larger K, L and N frames have leaf mainsprings and larger/heavier lockwork that make action work easier.

Also speak to your doctor about how to increase your finger/hand strength. Special excercises might help.
 
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Thanks, Old Fuff,

It's an Air Lite PD, which I have already decided to leave as is in terms of trigger pull.

I went out and did some more practice after receiving the initial replies above (I had only done one practice session -- after years of no shooting -- when I wrote the opening post).

Your suggestion of exercise is, I'm sure, the right course for me.

I did better on the range today, and I'm confident that continued practice will renew my ability to use the AirLite again without any long-term problem.
 
Frankly, an Air Lite of any kind is possibly the hardest revolver to shoot double-action. Anything and everything that can be working against you is.

If home defense is your intended purpose you are handicapping yourself for no useful purpose.

If at all possible I suggest that you go to a well-stocked retailer or shooting range, and look for (and try out if you can) a used and well broken in S&W model 10 (Military & Police) also in .38 Special. Forget any snubnose, and go for a barrel length between 3 and 4 inches. You may want to invest in a set of custom stocks that are made to fit your hand. When properly set up you should find this to be much easier to shoot accurately then what you have now.

If you find this revolver to be too big, consider a regular J-frame, steel model with a 3 inch barrel – or better yet if you can find one, a Colt Police Positive / 4 inch, or a Detective Special / 3 inch. Both Colts have an easier double-action pull.

For what it's worth, I understand your problem. Old age has crippled my hands too.
 
I don't have problems with reducing weight on a self defense revolver. Smith has to make the trigger somewhat stiff to avoid lawsuits. Writers like Massad Ayoob counsel against reducing the trigger because it could be an issue in an investigation following a self defense shooting. Given your age, however, I don't believe that would be a problem, especially if you shoot it. If a handgun is purchased for target shooting or sport, then it's okay to have a lighter trigger pull. And if some clown comes into your home with the idea of harming you or your family, and all you have is a sporting handgun, well, too bad for the intruder.

If you don't want to lessen the pull of your revolver, simply dry fire it and handle it in your spare time. Over a few short weeks you'll find that by hefting it and dry firing it, your muscles will build to the point where using it won't be a problem. But please make sure the gun is empty and check it twice before turning on the TV or radio. Dry firing it also will smooth the gun's action up a bit.
 
Smith & Wesson, as well as the other double-action revolver makers' don't heavy-up the double-action pull for liability reasons. There were suits that claimed that "hair-trigger" single-action trigger pulls contributed toward a wrongful death when the shooter unintentionally fired a gun. This caused some police departments to have their sidearms converted to double-action-only, and/or to purchase new guns that came so converted from git-go.

From a liability point of view, the gunmakers are more worried that a too-light double-action pull might not set off a primer, and then be sued.

They get caught in the middle. On one side customers want absolute reliability reguardless of the circumstances, and on the other they want the lightest possible trigger pull. No, they can't have both.

However if a gun owner fools with the action, and in particular changes out or modifies the springs, the gun manufacturer is off the hook. Then all of the liability if there is any - falls on the gun owner. :scrutiny:
 
Old Fluff said:
Frankly, an Air Lite of any kind is possibly the hardest revolver to shoot double-action. Anything and everything that can be working against you is.

If home defense is your intended purpose you are handicapping yourself for no useful purpose.

If at all possible I suggest that you go to a well-stocked retailer or shooting range, and look for (and try out if you can) a used and well broken in S&W model 10 (Military & Police) also in .38 Special. Forget any snubnose, and go for a barrel length between 3 and 4 inches. You may want to invest in a set of custom stocks that are made to fit your hand. When properly set up you should find this to be much easier to shoot accurately then what you have now.

If you find this revolver to be too big, consider a regular J-frame, steel model with a 3 inch barrel – or better yet if you can find one, a Colt Police Positive / 4 inch, or a Detective Special / 3 inch. Both Colts have an easier double-action pull.
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OldFluff,

I very much appreciate your suggestions.

I do not have any trouble shooting accurately with the AirLite PD, regularly hitting the bullseye (the red front sight is especially helpful in that regard -- my aged eyes need the clarity that sight provides).

However, I'm finding the recoil is almost as much a problem to my hand and wrist as is the heavy trigger-pull.

I do a lot of dry-firing between shooting sessions -- in which I can indulge at any time of day or week, having my own range out in the country with a natural berm.

I'll go shopping at gun stores in the near future, keeping in mind your suggestions.

I am tempted to consider switching to a Glock (which I shot with great satisfaction about 25 years ago). What do you think of that idea?

Thanks much.
 
However, I'm finding the recoil is almost as much a problem to my hand and wrist as is the heavy trigger-pull.
Click to expand...

The recoil can also cause hairline fracturers in older wrist bones... :uhoh: Especially in the... well... elderly (The pot is calling the kettle black here) :D

A heavier gun will help.

I do a lot of dry-firing between shooting sessions -- in which I can indulge at any time of day or week, having my own range out in the country with a natural berm.
Click to expand...

Very good idea. No matter what gun you pick, this will help.

I am tempted to consider switching to a Glock (which I shot with great satisfaction about 25 years ago). What do you think of that idea?
Click to expand...

That was 25 years ago... :cool:

However, if you can still pull back the slide and release it, you might give the Glock consideration. So far as a house-gun is concerned, remember you must always keep your finger off the trigger unless you intend to shoot, and keep the pistol in a holster that covers the trigger and trigger guard. Also never forget that when taking it apart you must first: (1) remove the magazine, (2) clear the chamber, and (3) pull the trigger, before you can proceed. Don't get mixed up. :eek:

The Old Fuff can get by the disassembly drill, but can't pull back the slide. Therefore for the time being he has to use a revolver. Be sure you're not in the same boat. :banghead:
 
Old Fuff,

I looked up the date Glock came to the U.S. -- after trusting my faulty memory when I said I fired it 25 years ago. Correction: It was over 20 but less than 25 years ago.

Thanks for the additional good advice, which I will heed.
 
John,
I bought a J frame Airweight and totally understand what you're saying about the trigger pull. I find it very stiff too. The recoil is heavy because the gun is so light.

A few months back I found a Ruger Police Service-Six and was AMAZED on how light and smooth the trigger was to pull. I'm 50 years old but new to shooting so I wasn't exposed to revolvers in the "good old days" when all the triggers were as smooth as glass. This is a 3" .357 Magnum that isn't so light that the recoil is hard to handle. I truly feel that if you were to find a revolver like the one I found you would have a much easier time of it. The recoil is less and the trigger is like glass, just what you are looking for in a SD revolver.
 
Which goes to prove that John should go out and explore a bit, and maybe try some of these guns out. But at (our) age don't try shooting .357 Magnum ammunition out of a mid-frame revolver without checking with your doctor first. A mistake can leave ones hands crippled for life. :uhoh:
 
I'm staying home today because my area is under severe weather alert all day.

Otherwise, I'd be out applying for a handgun purchase permit, and shopping for a new gun.

Since all I can do now is think about it, I'll publish my thoughts to welcome help in processing them.

The advice to shop for a used gun challenges two inclinations on my part:
  • (1) I am rather inept when it when it comes to assessing and testing anything mechanical, so I do not trust myself to avoid purchasing a defective used gun;
  • (2) My vision is such that I need the aid of the color contrast between a black rear sight and a red (or orange) front sight. The red front sight on my 340PD is what enables me to shoot it accurately.

I like the high visibility sights on new S&W revolvers, and I like the looks of the model 520 HIVIZ that I see on the S&W web site.

I am wondering if I might compensate for less than optimum trigger pull on a new revolver (assuming such would be comparable to that of the 340PD which has become problematic for me) by using the new revolver as though it were single action: that is, thumb-cocking the hammer rather than finger/trigger cocking the hammer.

I'd like to hear critiques of that idea.
 
You'd better go underground to do your thinking... :evil: :D

The best protection against getting a lemon while buying a used gun is to buy it from a reliable dealer or individual who will stand behind it if something isn't right. These days I seldom buy a new revolver, but I am careful about who I buy anything esle from. So far I haven't been stung.

HiViz sights are not a Smith & Wesson product. They and everyone else buy them from HiViz Shooting Systems in Fort Collins, CO. (www.hivizsights.com) and they have styles for many different kinds of guns. Originally they were made for shotguns, and then they expanded into other markets. If a handgun you are interested in doesn't come with HiViz sights they can probably help you out.

The S&W model 520 is a larger gun, and as a rule has a better double-action trigger pull then the smaller J-frame revolvers. As I mentioned before, you might want to buy aftermarket stocks that better fit your hand, and a qualified pistolsmith or the S&W Performance Center can do a much better job improving the double-action pull then is possible on a J-frame, and still have it completely reliable.

I have mixed feelings about using the single-action pull in serious confrontations. As many police departments discovered, when a person is under stress, and has their finger on the trigger, it is all too easy to unintentionally fire a round, and the consequences can be awfull. However with your weaken hands you should practice holding the revolver in both hands, and using the weak-hand thumb to cock the hammer while otherwise operating the gun with your strong hand. Consider this, and other techniques, to be options that you can pick and choose from as circumstances dictate.

Also if your handgun is going to be used primarily (if not exclusively) for home defense, look at the following web site: (www.crimsontrace.com) and keep in mind that their laser sights do not compromise your use of the HiViz sights you like. However in low light, within a residence, they make sight alignment a moot point, and can scare the daylights out of anyone who is in front of your muzzle. That often makes shooting unnecessary. :evil:
 
Old Fuff:

That often makes shooting unnecessary.
Click to expand...

:) I'm always on the lookout for ways to make shooting unnecessary.

Thanks for all the wisdom and knowledge with which you have provided me.

I will endeavor to make the best use of it.

Again, many thanks.
 
John,
You don't need the sights to be red from the factory to enjoy using red sights. None of my handguns came with "colored" sights but all have them now. You can use model paint or something made specifically for sights. Birchwood makes touch up paint markers that work very well. You put on the white and then the red and they are just as good or better than factory paint. They come in white, red and green and can be found separately but I found a store that sells them as a kit a lot cheaper than buying them separately.
http://www.tadspoles.com/catalog/RWP-Super-Bright-Sight-Pens-Red--White-p-2150349.html
 
You're welcome John, I'm just glad I can add to the thread. I learned a lot here over the past few months and only wish to pass some of it along.
 
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