Ideal Double Action Trigger Weight?

[UncleEd]

The question of trigger weights has
come up for double action revolvers.
Some argue it's not the weight but
how smooth and easy the trigger
pulls. Others seem to like a light
DA pull.

For me, the "ideal" DA weights can
be somewhere between 8 or 8.5 pounds
and about 11 pounds, even sometimes
12 pounds. This is for Ruger GP100s
and Smith 686s or a K-frame Model 19
or 15. Recently bought another GP100
and the DA pull was smooth and from
the factory 9.5 pounds.

Just watched a video in which a spring
manufacturer touted an action job on a
Ruger SP101 where the end result was
4.5 pounds in DA. I contend that's too
light for a defense pistol and for just
general safety.

Just wondering where some of our THR
members fall, so what say you?

 

[trackskippy]

I shoot my DA revolvers, DAO. Unless it feels overly heavy, I really dont pay much attention to the weight. I think most factory triggers are pretty good as they come, with the odd exception.

No idea what the pulls are on my revolvers, as long as they are clean and smooth, which most have been. I have a couple that seemed overly heavy, and/or not so smooth, and in each case, a Wolff full power replacement seemed to bring them right in line with the others.

Ive also picked up a couple of used S&W's over the years where people either backed out the strain screws, and/or fiddled with the springs trying to do a trigger job. In those cases, I had a lot of light strike misfires, and either tightening the screw, maybe adding a spent primer to the end of it, solved the problem. If not, then a Wolff replacement did.

Just screwing the screw in doesnt make the trigger overly heavy, screwing it out definitely makes it feel lighter, but at that risk of light stikes and misfires. Ive often wondered if that wasnt the reason for them getting rid of them.

I think if people just spent more time working on building their DA muscle tone, the factory triggers wouldn't be an issue.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Way too many users buy a revolver, immediately decide the springs are “too heavy”, and throw in a light spring kit. Some without even testing to see if they reliably set off primers...

 

[.38 Special]

I once owned an S&W Model 10 built into a PPC gun by Jarvis. It had a D.A.-only "roller trigger" which broke at about five pounds and was utter perfection. It only would pop Federal caps, though, and I don't believe there is any place for such a thing on a defensive gun.

My primary carry gun also is D.A. only, but utilizing the standard lockwork. It was turned over to Alan Tanaka with instructions to make it smooth but absolutely reliable. He returned it with an astonishingly smooth eight pound pull but was slightly concerned with reliability and instructed me to verify that it was a hundred percent with whatever primer I chose. As I really only keep Federals on hand it has not been an issue - but is one of the reasons I figure eight pounds is about the lower limit for a "serious" gun.

Beyond that, you can put me down as a "weight is not as important as smoothness" guy. I can manage a smooth twelve pounder much more easily than a jerky seven pounder, and whenever I have trigger work done I ask the gunsmith to bear that in mind.

 

[RugRev]

I think there is an optimal intersection of smoothness and weight. The trigger pull should be smooth but should also be in a certain weight range. For me that would be a double action of 8 to 9.5 lbs. I once had a S&W that I got down to 6.75 lbs. but it sort of reminded me of a toy gun and I promptly upped the pull to about 8 lbs. which is where most of my other DA guns are. It was a case of seeing out of curiousity of how low one could go and retain reliability. I will note that it involved far more than "just an action job". I will agree with the above poster that weight is not as important as smoothness.

 

[mcb]

Never found any advantage to trying to get a super light double action trigger. Even with my USPSA revolvers that I have tens of thousands of round through I have always left the springs stock. I have used three N-frames in competition, a S&W 610, 625 and 627 and the double action trigger pulls are 9.5 , 8.5, 10.0 respectively.

 

[Jonesy814]

I have a couple older ones , well broken in that run about 8.5. Had a couple others in the 10.5-11.5 pound range that I stoned the rebound slide/frame, then installed a 14-15 pound spring. I also look for rub marks on the side plate from internals, and address anything found with a stone.
I have used a couple Wolff reduced power as well as their full power main springs and had great luck. Now my revolvers are all in the 8.5 to 9.75 pound range, with a very smooth action and that is how I like them.

 

[GooseGestapo]

3.5lb minimum single action trigger.
9-11lb double action.
If it’s smooth, it feels lighter than it actually is. It MUST be controllable all the way until the cylinder locks and hammer drop.
The bolt must lock before the hammer falls or accuracy will be badly compromised.
(Spitting lead from barrel=cylinder gap).
Many “so called” trigger or accuracy jobs fail to address these.

 

[Jim Watson]

The lighter the better, as long as it pops all the primers. My target revolvers get Federals, my carry .38s must fire CCI primers.
You can't just throw in weaker springs and call it an "action job", to get the pull down low, friction must be minimized and camming angles just right.

Camming, not camping; autocorrect strikes again.

 

[UncleEd]

Jim Watson,
Can't really agree with "the lighter the better" when it
comes to carry firearms such as your .38s.

 

[PzGren]

Trigger characteristics are more important than mere trigger weight for me, the MR73 and post 1969 Korths have adjustable triggers. Use of rollers as bearings have been used in Korths first since 1969, Manurhin incorporated roller bearings into the MR73 design as well.

 

[UncleEd]

PzGren,

I was allowed to dry fire two different Korths
about two years ago. Don't know at what
tensions the triggers were set for DA. They
were both right out of the box specimens.

But I felt the triggers were too "single action"
in feel; that is, once I started to apply pressure
the triggers went through the full cycle. I
didn't feel like I had full control of the triggers
nor did I achieve a "cadence" or "rhythm" in DA
control.

Perhaps too short a test, at least in dry fire, in
each case but I was turned off by the Korths.
Guess I'd need more testing or different
settings for the triggers.

I'd love to handle and test dry fire or live fire
a Manurhin. Perhaps down the road...

 

[Riomouse911]

I like 9-ish DA and 4.5-ish SA for my trigger weights, and that’s what I strive for. But but I will take a smooooth 12-6 over a light 8-3 that’s choppy or has unreliable primer ignition anyday.

Stay safe.

 

[Tirod]

Light triggers on carry guns are like having the same on a deer rifle. Yet the military doesn't do that. They don't allow adjustable triggers on sniper rifles anymore, either.

DA, at least 10 pounds. SA, nothing under 5 for a carry weapon. Anything lighter is for a range only weapon where it either is in your hand or on the bench. The hardest part of tactical use there is putting on pasters over a mowed grassy range.

IN THE FIELD, it's much more difficult. A deer rifle with that same target trigger getting dragged thru brush, with rocks underfoot, and elevated heart rate searching for a blood trail while looking for a deer to bound up suddenly from it's hide is not the time to have your target trigger accidentally activated. Not even. The military settled on 6 pounds minimum on tactical single action triggers across the board and did that over 100 years ago.

It's the civilian shooter justifying his race trigger in the field who thinks it works great there too. But, it doesn't really give you any advantage. Lock times aren't a major consideration with a feeding deer wandering the edge of the woods, presentation of a good shot is more important.

And good shooters can win a championship with a heavy trigger - Mas Ayoob did it with a Glock equipped with a NY trigger. Skill counts for more than equipment and can overcome what most people consider a handicap.

On a range, with precision shooting under strict controls, shoot what you like, in the field with random vegetation challenges, extremes of weather, constantly changing footing, environmental challenges of slope, mud, or rock, it's all too easy to have a negligent discharge. I lost a friend in my Junior year over tripping in the field and him shooting himself. His companion had to witness it and he expired in a minute.

Don't put race gun triggers on a tactical/field gun getting bushwacked thru rough terrain. The experts in doing that set the example.

 

[Jim Watson]

Jim Watson,
Can't really agree with "the lighter the better" when it
comes to carry firearms such as your .38s.

When working with a J frame's limits of leverage and the requirement to fire hard primers, "lighter" is not all that light when compared with a match L frame and double hand seated Federals. I am only one notch down on spring rating on my tuned M640 and my stock M38 demands full power.

 

[JFrame]

I can appreciate this conversation. I had a talented local gunsmith tune the trigger on my no-dash .38-only S&W Model 640.

He worked his magic to create a butter-smooth 9-pound pull. For me, the smoothness was not to be believed... It literally feels like pulling against air.

I made the mistake of letting my wife dry-fire it. She promptly declared the 640 to be hers.

 

[drband]

smooth. Period. Weight? Not a concern.

 

[Jim Watson]

.38-only S&W Model 640.

Right. My M640 was one of the last .38s in the pipeline when they magnumized the steel J frames. Tuned and engraved it is my "cute little revolver" demonstrator.

 

[Old_Grouch]

8-10 lbs is fine for me.

 

[mcb]

As far as carry goes I don't think you can get a reliable double action trigger pull weight down to a trigger pull light enough for me to consider it too dangerous for concealed carry. The minimum pull weight required for reliable ignition combine with the long trigger pull of double action makes them all safe for carry IMHO. I have run into a few single action triggers so light I would not carry concealed but never a double action revolver trigger.

 

[RugRev]

Uncle Ed brings up another aspect of trigger pull, that is, the pressure or weight required to go through the entire double action pull. At one end one can have a pull weight curve that increases throughout the pull much like old Colts. At the other end one could have a high initial pull that decreases throughout the pull and in between one with a relatively flat curve throughout the entire pull.

 

[EMC45]

In my I Frame and J Frmaes I have Wolff XTra power springs. They take a bit to pull, but I get perfect primer ignition and they are smooth.

 

[UncleEd]

MCB,

An equivocation:

Not sure I'd agree with you on trigger pull weight.
I think that with a particular revolver with a fairly
hefty hammer, the trigger weight could be reduced to
an unacceptable level for daily carry. An "oddity"
perhaps but still possible with the right smithing,
polishing of internals.

So, don't agree with you but I do not actually
disagree with you. I know we are on the same
page when it comes to safety.

 

[Jim Watson]

At the other end one could have a high initial pull that decreases throughout the pull

That is what I call the "staple gun trigger", you can feel it roll over its peak resistance and then keep coming back with little effort. My Kahr E9 is that way and I find it harder to shoot than a level DA or a little stacking.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

8-10 lbs is fine for me.

came to say this.

but like many have posted, smooth is the key more than weight (within reason, of course)