Reflex Sight Selection

[JDinFbg]

I'm probably opening up a can of worms as getting opinions is like the proverbial part of anatomy - everybody has one. So to focus responses, I want to install a reflex sight on a 94 Winchester using a no-drill rail that utilizes the iron sight dovetail. After looking at a bunch of online reviews, I want to limit my selection to just reflex sights due to their small size and low profile. The sight would be mounted forward of the receiver and about where the existing iron sight is now. Thus I would like feedback ONLY from those folks who have experience with reflex sights mounted on rifles similar to what I described. I'd like to know what reflex sight you chose, how you like it, if you'd now make a different selection based on your experience, what MOA size dot you chose, and things along those lines. There are a ton of reflex sights out there that offer all kinds of things the manufactures call "features", but what I would term as distractions. I just want the basic dot that is easy to see under all lighting conditions, has no parallax, is user friendly, and hopefully does not cost a fortune. Thank you.

 

[badkarmamib]

After trying something similar with a Marlin 336 and a spare reflex just the other day, I just want to offer some insight on what NOT to do. Skip on the traditional reflex sights like Aimpoint, Holosun, etc. You will never get anything more than bare chin weld. You are gong to want something much lower profile, along the lines of a Burris FastFire, with an appropriate mount, if available.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I have a couple of Burris Fast Fire III 3 MOA sights. I have had each well over 5 years and have used them alot. I have never had one lose its zero. I believe I may have changed the batteries once.

 

[TonyAngel]

After trying something similar with a Marlin 336 and a spare reflex just the other day, I just want to offer some insight on what NOT to do. Skip on the traditional reflex sights like Aimpoint, Holosun, etc. You will never get anything more than bare chin weld. You are gong to want something much lower profile, along the lines of a Burris FastFire, with an appropriate mount, if available.

This isn't right. Not with the aimpoints anyway. You can get the aimpoint as low as any conventional scope, if not lower. With the aimpoints, like the Acro, T1 or H1, it's a matter of the mount that you get for it. They aren't all designed for AR15's.

What I don't like about the mini red dots is that the ones I've seen have an emitter that shoots the dot onto the viewing window. If something covers the emitter, no dot. Of course, it's usually a simple matter of clearing the debris, but by then, you've missed the shot.

Honestly, if you want to dip your toe, I have a bushnell TRS25, I think it is. I've had this thing since they were first released and it still works. They go for around $100 and have a very low weaver/picatinny mount built in. It's a pretty nice little sight.

 

[Skylerbone]

My situation is not what you’ve described so disregard if you please, but I feel it’s worth sharing. I have multiple RDS sights on ARs and pistols including a Vortex Venom, a reflex similar in size/function to the Burris FFs.

While reflex sights are great performers with miniature proportions they can have drawbacks. Shooting undercover you might never be the wiser as to differences between an open reflex and a tube style RDS but once the top comes down and the sun is shining you may wish for something else.

So my suggestion is to find a retailer that has a display and will allow you to have a look outdoors. The Venom does rather well, as well as the FF3 imo when comparing washout but your eyes should be the judge.

Dot size is another decision best left to the end user, though traditionally a 1-3 MOA dot is sized for rifles, 4+ MOA dot for pistol. The problems show up when people with large dots want more precision or those with small dots want a more visible aiming point.

Just checking the 94 mount for the Burris, Turnbull is out of stock, Brownells is special order in 5-8 weeks so you’ve got time to ponder and hopefully shop around.

 

[badkarmamib]

This isn't right.

I was referring to the tube-style sights. I mounted a Sig Romeo5 with low mount on the receiver, and was practically resting my cleft on the comb trying to see through the sight. The open window styles tend to sit lower, which would give a better sight picture for this application. YMMV.

 

[Skylerbone]

A few pictures of some of my smallest options.



Vortex SPARC, the original model came with 3 risers.


Bushnell TRS-25


Vortex Venom with 1913 attachment.


Bushnell again.


Venom


Venom without 1913 base attached.

 

[TonyAngel]

I put a red dot in my marlin 336. It was an aimpoint H1. I didn’t have any problems. Nothing you put on there is going to be as low as the open sights but with the right mount I’ve always been able to find a tube scope solution.

 

[badkarmamib]

Looking at @Skylerbone 's pics, the TRS-25 has a mount that is integrated into the body, unlike the Sig/Holosun/Vortex, which is an adapter screwed to the bottom. This does allow it to sit lower, a detail that I had forgotten when I tried to do a lower cowitness with an AK and Ultimak. Like @TonyAngel alluded to, it will still require a higher weld, unless you add a cheek riser to the stock.

 

[Skylerbone]

the TRS-25 has a mount that is integrated into the body, unlike the Sig/Holosun/Vortex, which is an adapter screwed to the bottom. This does allow it to sit lower, a detail that I had forgotten when I tried to do a lower cowitness

Yes, this is the low mount version (non-AR height) that I originally used for my son’s 10/22.

Nice thing about the Burris is the product lifecycle which has given it aftermarket support. Picture borrowed from Turnbull’s site of the rear sight adaptor for the Winchester. It may fit others but specifies FF1-3 (all generations).

 

[JDinFbg]

Dot size is another decision best left to the end user, though traditionally a 1-3 MOA dot is sized for rifles, 4+ MOA dot for pistol. The problems show up when people with large dots want more precision or those with small dots want a more visible aiming point.

I've read comments from several folks that say the large dot covers too much of the target. However, if the dot were adjusted such that the aim point was the top of the dot (just like one would shoot with iron sights), it would seem to me that good accuracy resolution could be had along with having a very visible dot. Have you ever tried that with dot sights?

 

[JDinFbg]

After trying something similar with a Marlin 336 and a spare reflex just the other day, I just want to offer some insight on what NOT to do. Skip on the traditional reflex sights like Aimpoint, Holosun, etc. You will never get anything more than bare chin weld. You are gong to want something much lower profile, along the lines of a Burris FastFire, with an appropriate mount, if available.

What dot size did you try in your situation? Would you go bigger or smaller if you were to purchase a dot sight specifically for your Marlin?

 

[JDinFbg]

I have a couple of Burris Fast Fire III 3 MOA sights. I have had each well over 5 years and have used them alot. I have never had one lose its zero. I believe I may have changed the batteries once.

I've read some very good reviews about the Burris Fast Fire III. Was your application of the Burris on a gun where the sight was mounted forward of the receiver about where the iron sight would be? Was the 3 MOA dot easy to see?

 

[earlthegoat2]

I made a thread about something very similar a bit back. Specifically, I was looking for a mount like the one Turnbull sells.

Someone linked to it as I had never heard of it. Varminterror said he bought one and I tried the same day and they were sold out and have not been back in stock that I have seen from checking back dozens of times over about 6 months.

Hope they come back or I’m just going to have to make one which is something I can do but really don’t want to as it is at the edge of my skill level in machining.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I've read some very good reviews about the Burris Fast Fire III. Was your application of the Burris on a gun where the sight was mounted forward of the receiver about where the iron sight would be? Was the 3 MOA dot easy to see?

I have mine on handguns. Yes, the 3 MOA dot is very easy to see.

 

[JDinFbg]

I made a thread about something very similar a bit back. Specifically, I was looking for a mount like the one Turnbull sells.

I had seen the Turnbull mount, but it would not work on my Win 94 which is a rifle, not a carbine, with a 26" octagon barrel. From what I saw, the Turnbull mount works only on a 94 with a round barrel. I found another mount that I just ordered: https://www.mod94scoperail.com/Pre-...l-94-Rail-Mount-w-Adjustable-Sight-p138178945. I will have to modify the mount for my rifle (which the seller clearly noted) since the dovetail on my rifle sits almost 5" ahead of the receiver.

 

[Skylerbone]

Ahhhh you have the nice 94! I’m not in any way nostalgic so I go round barrel for weight. Yes as ColtPython points out the 3 MOA dot is easy to pick up.

 

[badkarmamib]

What dot size did you try in your situation? Would you go bigger or smaller if you were to purchase a dot sight specifically for your Marlin?

The Sig Romeo5 is a 2 MOA dot. For a quick-handling carbine, it is good, 3 would be as well. 4 would occlude too much of the target, and smaller than 2 would be hard to pick up, IMHO. For a similar setup, as low as possible, I would probably go with a Bushnell TRS25. Like I mentioned, I had forgotten a lot of my findings when I bought the Sig. I bought it for an AK. The TRS25 sits slightly lower, but the ROMEO5 has shake-awake. But, to see the AK irons through the ROMEO5, I had to raise the leaf to the 800 yatd mark, which was why I went back to irons only, and have had this spare Sig ROMEO5 laying in the cabinet. A whole lot of important things that I should have remembered, so I won't make similar mistakes, but my memory isn't what it used to be

 

[JDinFbg]

For viewers of this post, I just made a new post about a machine rifle rest I built:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/my-machine-rifle-rest.866763/
It has a picture of the 94 Winchester I'm planning to install an optic sight on.

 

[JDinFbg]

Thanks to all who have offered there thoughts and recommendations of reflex sights. I'm wondering if anyone out there has any experience with the Crimson Trace CTS-1300 3.5 MOA Compact Open Reflex Sight? It seems to be in the general price range of many of the reflex sights that have been mentioned. It seems to provide for very easy battery replacement, and Crimson Trace offers free batteries for life, not that I'd expect to need a lot of batteries, but hey, free if free.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I tried a quite forward mounted Docter sight once and found acquiring at that long relief to be about the same as aligning irons and discarded the idea.

I had a few OKOs and Trijicons around of larger size but was so unimpressed by the micro that I didn't bother.

Then, I shot a vintage shotgun of a relative's with one of the vintage, post WWII Nydar sights quite forward mounted and was very impressed.

I don't know if it was the Nydar design (very minimalist) or using a larger sight than the Docter. In any case, I was as I said, impressed. Both by utility and acquisition/tracking.

Tube-based dots I really know nothing of as I loathe them. Having learned on relax style.

Todd.