Reliably feeding load for a 1911?

[N555]

Bullseye match shooters go https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/loads-for-the-bullseye-shooter/99418

"A common benchmark is that the gun must be capable of a 10-shot group at 50 yards that is less than 1.5 inches center-to-center.

As you can see from the chart ... velocity ranged between 700 fps and 800 fps. High speeds are not required, and more speed means more recoil. Also, some shooters believe this speed range is the sweet spot for accuracy."​

My "powder puff" load of 200 gr LSWC with 4.0 gr of Red Dot/Promo will reliably cycle all 1911s I have shot and M&P45, even when using new recoil springs (Factory and Wilson Combat/Wolff aftermarket).

And no feeding issues with factory Sig/RIA 1911 magazines along with 8 round Chip McCormick Power Mag and Wilson Combat 47D magazines through 12,000+ rounds out of railed Sig 1911 XO and 10,000+ rounds out of RIA 1911 Tactical.

And pretty accurate too (Groups shot after 7000+ rounds through Sig 1911) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...omo-reloading-range-test.578444/#post-9415802

My powderpuff load is about 4.5gr of wst under a 230gr bullet, gives a very consistent 700fps and cycles the gun great. It's the most accurate load I know of. But I'm more interested in something that will expand a hollow point so I'm looking for little less accurate but will produce 800fps+ loads for a 230gr bullet.
My current full power HP expanding loads of greendot and HP38 look about like your 25yd shots, but at 10yd...
With 4.5gr of wst at 10yards all 7 shots are usually touching or super close to touching.
Ok, promo might be equal to or better than wst.
I bet 4gr or promo and 4.5gr of wst, >4gr of nitro100(old formula) under a 230gr bullet are all hitting close to 20,000psi and cycle a 1911 just fine.
What you don't want to do is load like 5gr of unique and hit like 12,000psi, then the gun cycles weakly, fails to feed, ect.

Now I'm curious. I think next time I see promo I'm going to have to get a pound and do a wst vs promo shoot off. I'm running low on wst, I would eliminate it for something better.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I have the Tisas DUTY 1911 in both the 45 acp and 9mm. I also have another 1911 45 acp parts gun, I assembled after taking the SDI COURSE ON THE 1911, and an American Tactical commander sized 1911, plus an original 1967 COLT 38 super with BAR STO BARREL AND BUSHING. Guess that tells you am a fan of 1911s. I also have a sort of 1911 in the ROCK ISLAND baby rock 380.
Have fired all but the new 9mm and the parts gun but so far, all the guns in my collection fire any bullet I put in them.
I also have revolvers, an old 1980 vintage Ruger Security Six, 38/357, an Uberti EL PATRON, 45 COLT, a Tauras 22/22 mag, and a Charter Arms 32 H & R mag for my wife..

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I am kinda old and set in my ways, if it ain't broke don't fix it , or the KISS principle

 

[LiveLife]

Now I'm curious. I think next time I see promo I'm going to have to get a pound and do a wst vs promo shoot off. I'm running low on wst, I would eliminate it for something better.

While Promo has same burn rate as Red Dot and reblended to meter better, it won't produce the accuracy of WST, rather that of W231/HP-38.

Promo only comes in 8 lb container but is a good general purpose powder for 9mm/45ACP that is particularly better suited for PCC loads to enhance bolt/buffer "dwell time" to produce smaller groups than W231/HP-38 at 50/100 yards.

Consider Promo modern Red Dot that meters better, like BE-86 vs Unique.

 

[N555]

My 5.2gr loads with HP38 seemed less accurate than my 5.6gr loads.
5gr shots had high SD and most weren't moving fast enough to expand a hollow point.
I had 22lr "25yd targets" set up at 10 yards.
5.2gr shots sprayed all over the target a few missed the outer ring completely.
5.6gr shots always hit the black. I tested 30 shots and had 2 flyers that were probably my fault.

 

[Blue68f100]

My powderpuff load is about 4.5gr of wst under a 230gr bullet, gives a very consistent 700fps and cycles the gun great. It's the most accurate load I know of. But I'm more interested in something that will expand a hollow point so I'm looking for little less accurate but will produce 800fps+ loads for a 230gr bullet.
My current full power HP expanding loads of greendot and HP38 look about like your 25yd shots, but at 10yd...
With 4.5gr of wst at 10yards all 7 shots are usually touching or super close to touching.
Ok, promo might be equal to or better than wst.
I bet 4gr or promo and 4.5gr of wst, >4gr of nitro100(old formula) under a 230gr bullet are all hitting close to 20,000psi and cycle a 1911 just fine.
What you don't want to do is load like 5gr of unique and hit like 12,000psi, then the gun cycles weakly, fails to feed, ect.

Now I'm curious. I think next time I see promo I'm going to have to get a pound and do a wst vs promo shoot off. I'm running low on wst, I would eliminate it for something better.

My 45acp loads are lighter than yours. I'm shooting 4.1-4.2 gr WST for 185gr and 200 gr SWC. Accurate in my guns. At one time I had a load in the 650fps but bumped it up.

 

[kopcicle]

Could we have the best photo you're capable of? The feed ramp specifically.

 

[Lo-Profile]

All I've ever reloaded for mine are 200g RNFP. Never had a issue in any of my three guns. I do use a 4 die set-up.
Had problems with a 3 die set-up with cartridges not feeding all the way into battery.

 

[hms365]

I have a 1911 that that was purchased used and HATED reloads on the longer side. I tried all sorts of things to make it work, but the only thing that made it 100% with RN and SWC is shorter rounds. I think I settled on 1.17 or 1.2” COAL, with a moderate load targeting ~ 800 fps. As long as you reload, it may be worth a try to make few that are shorter.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I hate having to resort to UToob but I guess sometimes folks need a visual.
How To Check/Adjust Extractor

From your posts it still seems to me like the problem is the extractor is not letting the case rim slide up normally when feeding. Factory ammo will be smooth and perfectly shaped; reloads, even from “once fired” brass, will have slight imperfections which will cause a hiccup in an incorrectly adjusted extractor. Take a look before tinkering with loads or removing more material from the gun by polishing things.

 

[mljdeckard]

I have one gun, (a Para double-stack,) that just hates my handloads, no matter what. I have just settled on that this is a gun with which I will only shoot factory ammo, and that's just life. I think their 'match grade' barrel and chamber are just tight. Because Para is gone, and I have far fewer options for extractors and magazines, so I will just live with it.

 

[ballman6711]

Every gun is different, and 1911's are not an exception.

I have two Kimber 1911's, both are 3" with aluminum frames. Ammo that will plunk and twist in one, will plunk and maybe twist in the other. Both guns work with my reloads, 185gr swc's, 200gr swc's, and 230gr fmj. Bullets are .451 and .452, jacketed and coated. I haven't tried any flat point bullets, but I suspect that if I got my OAL correct that they would work as well. You may want to try playing with the OAL and see if a dummy round or two will function, and if they do then make a few rounds to try at the range. Be aware that if you shorten your OAL you will want to reduce your powder charge as well.

chris

 

[oldschool45]

Well got 1 mag of factory Blazer Brass (small primer pocket) brass to go through it. Then it went back to FTRB's or not wanting to load the 1st round. On the ftrb's usually just a little pressure from your thumb and it goes fully into battery. Loads with a little more ooomph beahve better but not perfectly. I have been noticing rough case mouths and some of my brass has been around the block a dozen or so times.

GeoDude thanks! I'm going to have to pull, polish and check the extractor.
I may also need to call Wolff springs and get a more consistent recoil spring.

When I get back to gun in a few days I'll post good pics of the barrel, frame & extractor.

Yes I know IDPA has powerfactor but I tend to shoot unsanctioned matches. I just tell them "if da boolit sticks in da cardboard...just poosh it through"

I hate having to resort to UToob but I guess sometimes folks need a visual.
How To Check/Adjust Extractor
From your posts it still seems to me like the problem is the extractor is not letting the case rim slide up normally when feeding. Factory ammo will be smooth and perfectly shaped; reloads, even from “once fired” brass, will have slight imperfections which will cause a hiccup in an incorrectly adjusted extractor. Take a look before tinkering with loads or removing more material from the gun by polishing things.

 

[ballman6711]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned that you may try is to give the brass a light chamfer and deburr. I have a Kimber 1911 with a tight chamber and this seemed to help with my feeding issues.

Another thing I had to do was crimp to .4685 or slightly less. My reloads feed fine now with the correct crimp and OAL for my gun.

chris

 

[Steve in Allentown]

On the ftrb's usually just a little pressure from your thumb and it goes fully into battery.

Based strictly on this symptom alone I would encourage you to check the extractor's deflection. The extractor's tensioning wall should be .465" from the left guide block to achieve the desired .010" deflection.

Check out this thread for details: https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/

 

[oldschool45]

As promised below are 2 shots of the extractor and one of the frame & barrel area.
I need to compare that extractor angle to my Kimber or if they are compatible swap them out temporarily. Had to play with (fit) the extractor when I replaced it on the Kimber but that was after north of 15k rounds

tisas extractor1

• oldschool45
• Mar 24, 2023

tisas extractor 2

• oldschool45
• Mar 24, 2023

tisas barrel & frame

• oldschool45
• Mar 24, 2023

 

[Steve in Allentown]

I need to compare that extractor angle to my Kimber or if they are compatible swap them out temporarily.

Just an observation. Fitting an extractor so that it functions perfectly 100% of the time and doesn't cause intermittent and unexplained failures-to-feed is best done following a proven path. That path can be found HERE.

Had to play with (fit) the extractor when I replaced it on the Kimber but that was after north of 15k rounds

Even the most conservative extractor service life according to manufacturers is twice that number. A properly fit extractor in a properly built 1911 using quality magazines will have a service life of 60,000 + rounds. Reports of extractors with 100,000 rounds on them and still going strong are not uncommon.

 

[Blue68f100]

Need to remove the slide and slide a piece of brass under the extractor. Just by looking it look like the extractor is long and may be hitting the top part of the extractor grove.

 

[oldschool45]

Steve, thanks for the link! I've got a lot going on personally this year so this may be a Fall 2023 or sometime in 2024 project. But I will probably tear her 1911 down and go over the extractor with the link your provided. On the Kimber's extractor I probably could have retuned the original extractor but I was also fighting with Kimber Series II Schwartz safety issues at the same time.

 

[oldschool45]

I think we have the problem identified. Now I just need to do the homework to resolve it.
If I am reading this right I need to "bend" the extractor outboard a little so that it doesn't contact the extractor groove?

Tisasextractor Underneath_crop

• oldschool45
• Mar 25, 2023

 

[Steve in Allentown]

If I am reading this right I need to "bend" the extractor outboard a little so that it doesn't contact the extractor groove?

NO!!!

That extractor is very odd looking. Can you remove it from the slide and take a picture showing the hook area?

This is what a perfectly extractor looks like. This is your goal when fitting an extractor. Note the contact between the extractor's tensioning wall and the case rim. Note the hook does not touch the case anywhere. Click the blue HERE in post #42 above to learn everything there is to know about fitting an extractor correctly.

​

Here's another correctly fit extractor.

​

 

[ballman6711]

@Steve in Allentown 's link is a good and informative read. I did the work on my extractor and my 1911 throws brass between 3 and 4 o'clock where previously it went everywhere but left. It also helped turn my gun from one that would have a stoppage every magazine or two into a gun that is 100% reliable. It's easy to tune the extractor with a few basic tools and a bit of spare time and patience. I highly recommend tuning it if your gun (or gf's gun) is unreliable.

chris

 

[oldschool45]

Steve, these are the 2 angles I think you are looking for. My new phone doesn't macro as well as my old S9. I will say that the first time I removed the extractor from the slide it was so bent/tensioned I dam near needed to hammer it out. After I did the re-tensioning it comes out normally.
Wilson Series 70 Bullet-proof extractor is on $32 from midway.

Extractorinsideangle

• oldschool45
• Mar 26, 2023

Extractorbottomangle

• oldschool45
• Mar 26, 2023

 

[243winxb]

On the ftrb's usually just a little pressure from your thumb and it goes fully into battery.

Needs a tiny bit more taper crimp &/or shorter COL. Shaved lead may build up in the mouth of the chamber.

Sling shot the 1st round.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Steve, these are the 2 angles I think you are looking for.

Nothing obviously wrong with the extractor. Definitely a .45 extractor. The thing that caught my eye was the locating pad. My guess is it's a bit too tall meaning the deflection would be too little. The first thing I would do is make a.465" wide extractor deflection gauge and slide up the breechface to see if it lightly touches the extractor's tensioning wall. You can read all about this stuff HERE.