Reload 125 HAP

[mkmoy]

I am working on a suitable load for CZ P10C 9mm using Hornady 125 grain HAP with W231 powder as a target round. I have stayed within Hodgden's load data (2.8 start 3.3 max at 1.069" COL). So far I loaded up to 3.2 gr W231 and cannot get the P10C to cycle. At 3.2 casings start to eject but will not pick up the next round. Under 3.2 they will not even eject. Chrono results - 2.7 Gr 679 FPS to 3.2 821 FPS.

I want to stay within published load data but based on results, the Hodgdon data will not operate this round in the P10C. Is anyone aware of other data for 125HAP under W231 as cross reference? Thank you

 

[markr6754]

I would check out Sierra loading data. They have a listing for 125gr JHP, the closest thing to a Hornady HAP that I could find. Not even the Hornady 11th Ed lists that bullet, nor does their load section include HP-38/W231.

Sierra load starts at 3.0gr Win 231 for 880fps, COL 1.090" maxing out at 4.1gr with warnings good for 1060 fps. They list 1000 fps with 3.8gr.

I noticed your COL is a bit long for that round. Hornady lists the COL for 124gr XTP at 1.060". Perhaps you should shorten yours a bit and try again.

 

[Otto]

It isn’t uncommon.for CZ’s to be over-sprung, CGW sells reduced power recoil springs specifically for your model. I’d go with a 13lb spring.

https://cajungunworks.com/product/15rs-recoil-spring-for-p-0709/

 

[Kaldor]

I would check out Sierra loading data. They have a listing for 125gr JHP, the closest thing to a Hornady HAP that I could find. Not even the Hornady 11th Ed lists that bullet, nor does their load section include HP-38/W231.

Sierra load starts at 3.0gr Win 231 for 880fps, COL 1.090" maxing out at 4.1gr with warnings good for 1060 fps. They list 1000 fps with 3.8gr.

I noticed your COL is a bit long for that round. Hornady lists the COL for 124gr XTP at 1.060". Perhaps you should shorten yours a bit and try again.

This was my thoughts as well when I seen the velocity.

@mkmoy Try the load range mark suggested. The CZ might have a short chamber, so load to whatever "plunks" best in your pistol.

 

[Zendude]

Hodgdon’s load data can be on the very low side sometimes. I had cycling issues with their max 9mm 124 grn plated bullet load of 4.4 grn of Universal.
That said, bad load data should not be your initial assumption. Check your bullet tension especially. But, with Hodgdon, I always try to cross reference with other load data sources.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Lymans 49th lists 125 JHP @4.4 grains as max.

 

[Otto]

^^ That’s because Lyman uses a longer COL
Just replace the RS with an 11lb or 13lb. spring….problem solved. As a extra benefit you’ll get faster follow-up shots and less muzzle dip.

 

[mkmoy]

Thanks for all of the information. Otto I did get 15# & 13# springs from CGW and at 3.1 gr with the 13# spring I had eject just not full cycle every time. My previous mention of 3.2 gr was earlier with factory spring. I may have an 11# spring sent or try up to 3.4 gr W231/13# spring since there seems to be some headroom based on the 125 JHP data shared. The Note I did get good plunk at 1.069" and loaded to 1.062" but no shorter with concern for high pressure seeing Hodgdon shows 33,600 PSI at 3.3 gr/1.069".

 

[Dudedog]

IMO Hodgdons load data for the HAP is low, but they they pressure tested and got what they got so I won't say they are wrong.
Does seem like other 124/125 jacketed have higher charges.
The XTP is not the same as the HAP but close Lyman shows start W231 3.8gr MAX 4.5 with the XTP.

While I normally avoid loading over listed maxes in this case I might bump up .1 at a time to get function as they are showing 3.3 MAX at 876 FPS. Almost any other 124/125 load with W231/HP38 gets at least 1050.
For that matter Lyman shows a jacketed 147 W231 3.5 to 4.1gr, Start for the 147 is higher than Hodgdons max for the 125gr HAP.
I would also be really tempted to email Hornady and ask if they have any data they can give you citing Hodgdons data really low charges/vels with the bullet and see what they say.


Be safe.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Different bullet designs!
The ogives of the Sierra are quite different from the Hornady.

Sierra uses a very blunt ogive whereas Hornady uses a long gentle taper.
I use 4.4gr of HP38 with most 124’s. Very accurate in my PPC-9’s.
The RMR and Sierra JHP’s are very similar. Reduce and work up. (And along with Nosler are most accurate!)

I can imagine that only 3.2gr will dribble. I use 3.2 with a 90gr bullet in my .380’s!

 

[mkmoy]

See Hodgdon response. I was recommended 125HAP for accurate lower power loads, but these 125 HAPs may not be worth the trouble. I will seek another bullet for accuracy.

 

[Dudedog]

HAP is the same shape as a XTP, Hodgdon HAP OAL is 1.069, Lyman data for the XTP is 1.06 (shorter)
The HAP was intended to be a target bullet, so I can't see Hornady making it where you can't even make 125 (minor) PF with something like W231/HP38.
Maybe Hodgdons test barrel was really tight and the lot they had had really hard jackets or something.

Really would like to see what Hornady says.

 

[fxvr5]

See Hodgdon response. I was recommended 125HAP for accurate lower power loads, but these 125 HAPs may not be worth the trouble. I will seek another bullet for accuracy.

The 125 HAP is one of Hornady's most accurate bullets, and one of the most accurate bullets anywhere. It's not odd. Other bullets often have to be seated deeper to fit than the HAP.

I doubt it's been discontinued even though it says that in Hornady's 10th edition manual. They list the 124 FMJ RN as discontinued, too. It isn't. Some manuals have bad information. It wouldn't be the first time, including other bad information in the Hornady manual.

I've sent an email to Hornady about the HAP. We'll see what they say.

 

[fxvr5]

I received an email from Hornady about whether they have discontinued the .356 125 HAP.

Thank you for your email. That is incorrect information we still offer those bullets.

MR

mkmoy, you might want to forward this to Luke Otte.

Even customer service reps give bad information from time to time.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Those may be better suited for .357 Sig than 9MM loads

 

[fxvr5]

This is partly a gun related issue, and what recoil force is required to make the gun cycle reliably. I ran these bullets seated to 1.095" in my 9mm 1911. It cycles with just 3.0 gr 231, though barely. It clocked at 784 fps (very slow for a 9mm round) and put 10 rounds in 0.93 inches at 25 yards (from a Ransom Rest). At 3.3 grains of 231 the speed was 873 fps. That's still slow and doesn't produce a lot of recoil force, but my gun ran it just fine.

 

[KYregular]

At those velocities (if your chrono is correct) it likely wont cycle. Is there any soot on the outside of your casings? You should be able to shoot 1000 fps very safely, and that should take care of it. BTW, long time CZ loader, that lighter spring would help, but order a few and NEVER use the lighter spring if this is a personal defense pistol, especially with +P loads. Remember to plunk test when loading for CZs, or any other brand for that matter.

 

[Howland937]

The Hornady app still shows 125gr HAP, but says 121gr HAP is discontinued. It doesn't show data for them in 9mm, but does for 38 Super. Their website also shows them still being available through retailers.

Don't understand why anyone would want to shoot 125gr 9mm at 800fps unless it's an experiment for accuracy or seeing how low you can load and the gun still function. It doesn't seem like thats what the OP is intending though.

I am working on a suitable load for CZ P10C

Most of us tailor loads for our guns, not tailor guns for our loads. (Unless it's a purpose built gun for a very specific need) So I'd be hesitant to change anything on a gun that otherwise works fine, just to run on anemic handloads...unless that's ALL you need it to do.