Reloaded .308 LC brass will not chamber in my bolt action.

[Jasper1573]

Hello all,

I am new to THR and only started reloading about 5 months ago. Up until now, I have only reloaded new or once fired Winchester brass with no issues. This week I purchased a 1000 cases of once-fired LC brass. The years on the head stamp show '06, '07, and '08. There may be others, but this is primarily what I have noticed. I have done a full length resizing on 100 of the cases. The loaded, resized, trimmed to proper length cartridge will not chamber in my Rem 700. I tried to chamber a cleaned and primed unloaded case and found that it will not chamber either, so I need some advice on how to resize these LC .308 cases. I also had this issue with some once-fired Federal cases. I am using an RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme press with standard dies.

I have researched existing threads and have been unable to find one that addresses this specific issue. This is at least one thread that discusses resizing and case shoulder issues, but it doesn't answer my question. Any advice is appreciated, and if there is a thread that answers this question, please point me to it.

Cheers,

Jasper

 

[sansone]

my guess is the shoulder is not being pushed enough. Try screwing the resizing die down a little more

 

[243winxb]

Small Base Dies, or screw the die in more.

Can't close bolt on rifle

First make sure the the sizing die is adjusted so that the shell holder contacts the base of the die when the ram is at the top of its stroke when resizing a case. This ensures that the sizing die is bumping the shoulder back as well as reducing the diameter of the case. If the shell holder does not contact the base of the die, the diameter of the case is squeezed down, making the case (and distance to the shoulder) longer.

If this does not solve the problem, return the sizing die with a couple of fired cases, and we can modify the die to suit. Our address is:

Lee Precision Inc,
4275 Hwy. U
Hartford, WI 53027.

 

[zfk55]

All Lake City once-fired brass is machinegun fired. You'll have to full length size it, all the way as far down as your die will go till it cams-over at the top of the stroke.
TTL is important too, but usually its because this brass is very expanded.

Latigo

 

[MtnCreek]

Die should be screwed in until it hits the shell plate, then 0.25 additional turn. Surplus 308 brass was likely fired in a machine gun; MG's are pretty hard on brass. You will probably need to invest in a small base die. RCBS makes a good small base. If you plan to use alot of surplus brass, may want to check out Dillion Super Swager (removes primer crimp).

 

[Jasper1573]

Thanks for your advice...I did lower the die and now the rounds will chamber, so it was a shoulder problem as you have said.

However, I have another small issue associated with lowering the die to touch the shell holder...if I lube the outside of the round, I get some hydraulic compression/denting on the shell shoulder and below the shoulder on one; this is the reason I had my die adjusted a bit high because when I first started resizing, I experienced this same hydraulic denting issue. If, on the other hand, I don't lube and simply allow the residual lube in the resizing die to lube it, I get little or no denting on the shoulder. I suspect this means I am using to much lube? I do not lube the shoulders, only the lower case body and inside the neck. On these LC rounds, since they have already been sized and reprimed, I took out the resizing ball and depriming rod, as I didn't want to deprime the new primer and experience the bang pow of a new primer.

Any further advice on the hydraulic compression?

Thanks again for your sage advice,

Jaspoer

 

[Sin City Shootist]

I bought a small base full length and small base die just for that exact reason. The Redding stuff is really nice and works well. My Lee dies simply wouldn't size down small enough.

 

[Jasper1573]

While we are talking about dies, can you tell me the difference between standard dies, small base dies, and competition dies? I adjusted the die up 1/2 turn and, using less lube, the cases are cycling through my bolt gun.

Jasper

 

[Sin City Shootist]

The small base dies take the base down about .003 smaller then standard dies. Couldn't tell you about the comp stuff. Someone will chime in on those.

 

[JimKirk]

You really only need to lube the "straight sides" of the brass not the shoulder or the neck. It sounds that if you are using a little too much lube, it only takes a small amount to work. I lube the insides of the neck for calibers that I don't have carbide expanders for, even then I lube every 4th or 5th one to make expanding easier. What kind of lube you using?

Jimmy K

 

[243winxb]

Any further advice on the hydraulic compression?

To much lube will cause shoulder/body dents. RCBS dies have a hole in the thread area. Make sure this hole is open by putting a paper clip into it.

 

[Slamfire]

As you have found, following sizing die instructions seldom creates ammunition that fits the chamber. You have been using a hit or miss technique wherein you have been backing the die in and out, trying to find a point at which you can chamber the round.

Now that the round chambers, you don't know if the shoulder has been pushed too far back.

What all centerfire rifle shooters need are cartridge headspace gages. If you set up your die so that the sized case is below the "No Go" ledge and above the "Go" ledge, and your rifle has been properly headspaced, then you can control the amount of shoulder set back on your sized cases.

I basically size everything to gage minimum because my 308 ammunition has to fit a number of rifles. I don't set the shoulder below gage minimum because that will lead to case head separations.

 

[Jasper1573]

Thanks for the info on small base dies. Well apparently I have had my resizing die adjusted high and have been using too much lube. I am using the RCBS water based lube. It does the trick quite well and is easy to clean up. Concerning the weep hole in the threads of my RCBS resizing die, it is open and excess lube does exit through it, but I will poke through it to ensure it is open.

Next question...the hydraulic denting on the 5 or 6 rounds that had too much lube is minor; are they safe to shoot, or would it be wise to crimp and discard? I ask this because every one of these LC casings has a dent just below the shoulder where the extractor has banged on the shell during ejection, so I wonder, will firing those rounds that have minor hydraulic dents be safe, and will the pressure of firing the round expand and remove the dents from hydraulic compression as well as the dents from the military extractor?

I appreciate your patience with me...I am trying to be safe and at the same time be as efficient as possible with my resources.

Jasper

 

[243winxb]

Small Base Dies

From RCBS FAQ http://www.rcbs.com/questions/dies_questions.aspx

Q. I see a Small Base Die Set listed for my caliber. Do I need these or should I buy a Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set? How does each set differ?

A. The Small Base Die set is intended for use for ammunition to be used in auto, semi-auto, and lever action rifles so that the loaded round chambers and extracts easily. The Small Base Sizer Die sizes the case from the shoulder to the head of the case a couple of thousandths smaller than a Full Length Sizer Die. In certain calibers it also sets the shoulder of the case back a thousandth or two more than the Full Length Sizer Die. The Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set is not normally recommended for ammo to be used in auto, semi-auto, or lever action rifles. The Full Length Die set is recommended for ammunition used in bolt action rifles, particularly for ammunition to be used for hunting. The Neck Die Set can also be used to produce ammunition for use in bolt action rifles. The Neck Sizer Die sizes only the neck of the case so it will hold the bullet firmly. It does not size the body of the case nor does it set the shoulder back. Neck sized cases will usually chamber for three or more firings, depending on the powder charge and chamber dimensions. However, over a period of time, a slight drag will be noticed when the bolt is locked. At this point, cases will need to be full length sized and the shoulder set back so they will chamber and extract easily.

competition dies

Some are bushing dies. http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/Competition_Dies_Instructions.pdf

 

[243winxb]

The hydraulic denting will form to the chamber on firing and not cause a problem.

The dents from the military extractor

I would have to see a photo to know what your talking about. If near the shoulder, should not be a problem.

 

[Jasper1573]

243winxb,

Based on the info provided above on small base dies, I believe the full length dies that I have are what I need. The problem wasn't with the die, but with the way I had it adjusted.

Concerning the dents, they are indeed on the shoulder and there is one case that has a small dent just below the shoulder so they should be okay.

Thanks to all for your advice on this problem.

Cheers,

Jasper

 

[kimbernut]

RCBS Lube

Either get rid of the RCBS lube, use it on your fingers very sparingly, or (best choice) go to Imperial die wax for all your lubing.

 

[Slasher]

Here is another recommendation for the Imperial die wax, has been great stuff since I have been using it.

Another point that I haven't seen mentioned here and maybe because I am wrong so please correct me if so. I was told to get LC Match brass for my bolt rifles. The Match ammo has only been used in bolt rifles, not MG's, so it has not been stretched as bad as the regular LC 7.62 rounds.

 

[medalguy]

Use Imperial Wax. A little bit goes a long way. If you're getting lube coming out the vent hole, you're definitely using too much-- the hole is really meant to vent air as you size brass. And be sure you don't get any lube of any kind on the neck or shoulder. A bit inside the neck is fine to ease the expander button but not on the outside. Less is more here, if you understand what I mean.

Match brass is not needed. Some people will tell you it's been extracted a bit easier than GI brass but I still get 10 loads before I discard the brass. The main advantage of match brass is that the primers are not crimped, but once you remove the crimp the first reloading, you never have to touch it again.

And I'd highly recommend spending the ten bucks or so for a case gauge. I wouldn't reload without one.

 

[W.E.G.]

#1 -- If you are getting dents, you are using too much lube.

#2 -- The dents are only a cosmetic defect, and will have no effect on function.

 

[fguffey]

All 308 W/7.62 NATO are/were fired in a machine gun?? And that stretches them. That is the reason they are difficult to size???

I do not know what kind//type of press is being used, I do not know what die is being used. I do know what kind of press I am using and I know what die I am using, When sizing 308 W cases I have started with a case forming die and 30/06 cases, that is moving the shoulder back .388 thousands, without effort.

When sizing a case I measure first, I measure the length of the case from the head of the case to the shoulder after I have determined the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber, my opinion, it is mindless to size a case without knowing how the sized case will fit the chamber.

If a case whips my press I can determine the amount of whipping the case put on the press before I remove the case from the press, if my press if flexing, deflecting or distorting I can also measure the amount of flex, deflection or distortion..

Meaning I do not have problems when sizing a case, a case fired in a machine gun, to me, is a once fired case, there are those cases that are fired 5 times and sized with a neck sizer die, THEN, full length sized to allow the reloader to start over, I will never figure how that work but if it does no one should have trouble sizing a once fired in a machine gun 7.62 NATO.

Do not lube the neck or shoulder.

F. Guffey