Reloaded Ammo For Self-defense

[45shooter]

When I go shooting at the range first gun I shoot is my carry weapon.
I shoot the factory ammo in the magazine or cylinder and then reload with second magazine I carry as spare or those in the dump pouch. This way I make sure the ammo in the carry weapon is always fresh and I’m constantly testing my carry ammo in terms of accuracy and reliability.

Yesterday while at the range I realize that when I finishing shooting at the range and pack up to go home I load couple of magazines or grab handful of my reloaded cartridges to load the carry weapon for the return trip. I always go home with my carry weapon loaded with reloaded ammo that I normally use for practice. My reloads are target type loads (SWC or full wadcutter bullets loaded to moderate velocity).

Which brings up the question, what if I did have to use those reloaded ammo for self-defense? Would it be an issue? Finally, has anybody really gotten in trouble for using reloaded ammo for self-defense or is it just something that could happen?

 

[GEM]

This has been discussed on many forums and in the gun rags.

Here's my take:

1. It is hard to find a case that specifically will mention this in the legal literature. Mas Ayoob may have mentioned such in his writings but I don't have all of them in front of me.

2. For it to make the legal data bases, it has to be an official issue as in an appeal. If the DA just says you are a nutso because of reloads as he or she blabs, that won't make the data bases.

3. DAs do bring up and try to portray the weapon as outrageous in some cases. Again, this may not make the data base. For example, in the DC sniper case, the DA started his presentation by slowing putting together the AR used. That was to portray the weapon as powerful and evil. There are other instances of such.

4. Research into jury manipulation has demonstrated that in some cases where the shooting is ambiguous (side comment - someone will say if it is a good shoot, none of this matters - well, if all shoots were good shoots, you wouldn't be going to trial - now would you? So that comment is worthless.) that weapons appearance and jury exposure can be detrimental to the defendant.

5. A good lawyer should know this stuff and be able to defuse it for you.

6. It is hard to think that one could develop a reload that is more efficacious than good factory ammo. So why take the risk? Of course, the DA could say you chose The BonBon SPSexy round as you are a nut - but you can say it was used by agency XY or Z.

I've studied this intensively and am bored with the standard cliched answers:

1. Ayoob doesn't know what he is talking about because blah blah
2. Find me a case, blah blah
3. If it is a good shoot, it doesn't matter because blah blah

It may be a small risk factor that could be handled by a competent attorney.

However, it is more important to have training and legal representation such that you only shoot if one really has to, don't portray yourself as a looney and have competent representation.

 

[SWMAN]

Use ammo that the police in your locality use. Hard for anyone to say that LEO carry ammo isn't good for self-defense, except in New Jersey, where hardball has to be used as carry ammo by civilians and retired cops.

 

[GRIZ22]

It really doesn't make any difference if your lethal force is factory ammo, reloaded ammo, a baseball bat or a piece of pipe. Lethal force is lethal force. The use of reloaded ammo can hurt you if there are questions such as the distance between you and your assailant or something of that nature. If you're using factory ammo the boys from forensics can duplicate the scenario but have to rely on what you say you were using if you use reloads.

 

[Okiecruffler]

I'm one of those reckless yahoos that carry reloads in my carry gun. I trust them more than factory ammo, I prefer to practice with the same ammo I carry ( and I practice ALOT), and in the case of the 357 snubbies, my loads are better than factory loads.

 

[mljdeckard]

I always roll my eyes at people (particularly those who work behind gun counters) who have this magical formula all set up for what you can and can't have in a carry gun and get into trouble. "Your trigger must be at least x lbs, but no more than y lbs." "You can use JHP xyz rounds but not xyz JHP rounds." "Any round that travels less than 850 fps or more than 4200 fps will get you in trouble."

They go into all of these things before they discuss situational awareness, shot placement, etc. I tell people who ask me, features that make your weapon easier to fire accurately WITHOUT disabling any factory safety features are ok. If you have to do MANY modfications, maybe you should re-think the gun you carry.

 

[gopguy]

Over zealous prosecutors will use it against you in a defensive shooting. Better off using reloads for practice, use factory ammo for carry.

 

[Steve in PA]

Its a myth that "over zealous prosectors" (whatever they are) will use reloads against you. I guess they'll use the fact that you played cowboys and indians, or cops and robbers when you were a kid too, right??

Keep a box of your reloads on the side, then there is absolutely NO difference between what you reload and the factory.

Or as just about any reloader worth his salt does, keep a log book of what you use; A-bullet, with B-case, loaded with C-grains of D-powder and E-primer.

There is nothing wrong with using reloads, or a hammer to defend yourself. The only people who have anything bad to say about using reloads for self-defense are people looking to sell books and magazine articles.

 

[massad ayoob]

Steve in PA, I'm afraid I have to call your attention to a few misconceptions in your post, immediately above this one.

In your first paragraph, you ask what overzealous prosecutors are. I suggest you do a Google search under "Nifong." You say it's a myth that prosecutors will play the reload card. You're wrong, I've seen it happen. And you've participated in threads on this topic, so you KNOW the cases I'm talking about.

In your second paragraph, which is hard to understand, you seem to be trying to say that keeping some of your handloads on hand will suffice as exemplar ammo for testing by the state's investigators. Incorrect. YOU manufactured the evidence. As a cop investigating a rape suspect and demanding a blood sample, you wouldn't take his word that a vial of blood his lawyer dropped off at the lab was his; what on earth makes you think a prosecutor would take a potential defendant's word about what was in the handload, if gunshot residue testing to determine distance was an issue?

Ditto your third paragraph. Your records of what was in the load you say you used will carry about as much credibility and admissibility as a murder suspect's diary with an entry that says, "I was somewhere else on the date of the killing." Totally useless.

This is why, on all the "reloads for self-defense" threads here and elsewhere, when I've challenged folks to find me a case where the Court accepted a defendant's word for what was in the handloads, there has been nothing but conspicuous silence. It just ain't gonna happen.

And, in your fourth and final paragraph, if you knew anything at all about publishing, you'd know there's damn little money to be made in writing about things people don't want to hear. I could make a lot more writing a "Handload of the Month for Self-Defense" column, but could not do it in good conscience because I've seen -- and, as you well know, documented -- cases where handloads got good people in trouble.

 

[Navy joe]

I agree with everything Mas says and yet...(dons flamesuit) I carry handloads in my spare Glock 17 mags. My primary mag of 17 is Speer Gold Dot or Rem Golden Saber 115gr. I figure if I have to go for mag number 2 on a Glock 17 I am pretty far beyond your everyday defensive shooting and I have bigger things to worry about. I've shot about 500 of that particular handload and trust it highly. I just don't have the funds to keep 3-5 mags stoked with high quality defensive handloads and practice with it. All other guns I can honestly say I've carried only factory.

 

[Ken Rainey]

It would probably never be brought up if all other circumstances of your self defense was in line...and if it was, I'd tend to believe that your use of reloaded "range" ammo for self defense would tend to show in your favor versus an easily "made-to-be-evil" hollowpoint. A lot of it would probably depend on what part of the country you live in also...

If I ever have to use my pistol for self defense on the way back from the range or anywhere for that matter and all I got it loaded with is one of my proven to function reloaded range loads, I'll be darn glad that they're in there !

 

[jkomp316]

any lawyer would have a field day over handloaded bullets