Any Self-Defense stories involving reloading?

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I saw a story on a case in which a civilian got involved when a police officer was under attack. He was on his way back from the range and used several full cap magazines keeping the attacker from closing with the police officer or on him. The phrase "suppressive fire," was used I think.
There was a fairly famous case in like this in New York. A cop got shot by some thugs and a civilian with a beretta and several hicaps came to his aid. He ran both mags dry. The civilian would later get in trouble for it because his gun wasn't registered in NY, NY.
 
Was Mark Wilson out of ammo when he was killed by the guy with the rifle in Texas? Granted, if Wilson NEVER realized the BG had armor on, it wouldn't have made a difference. But, if he emptied his pistol into COM and then realized the BG was wearing armor, a reload would have been handy.
 
Quote:
"Heck, I thought this thread was about using reloads for self-defense! "

Hey, I once hit a BG over the head with my Dillon press! :rolleyes:

Does that count? ;)
 
Not technically reloading but jewelery store owner Lance Thomas used multiple handguns stashed around his store in several diffrent gunfights.
 
Was Mark Wilson out of ammo?

I don't think so. As I recall, he was armed with a Glock in 9mm. Assuming he started with a full gun, he had a minimum of 10 rounds if it were a fully loaded Glock 26.

He supposedly only fired 5-7 shots. So he should not have been out of ammo.

I have not found an online posting with an actual description of Wilson's weapon choice, specifically how many rounds he fired, how many hit, etc. that is reliable or can be verified. I know that on 3 or 4 gun boards, Wilson's gun was whatever was the popular gun of the board. Guns I have seen posted are Glock 17, Colt .45, 1911, Sig.
 
Can't recall either ccw holders getting killed because gun ran dry, but I know a few who got killed because their gun malfunctioned...and also a few killed because they were beaten to the first shot..
 
I saw a blog that had a picture of what they claimed was Mark Wilson's pistol. It was a Colt Mark IV Series 80. The blogger said the pic was from the PD. They also had a pick of the bad guys AK clone. There was a bullet hit in the receiver that was visible in the pic. I'll see if I can find the blog again and post the link.
 
I just thought of an example of a civilian reloading in a gunfight. There was a gun shop owner in Florida whose house was near his shop. One night several bad guys drove a car into his shop and started looting guns. He responded and engaged them with a M-16 (not an AR-15, a M-16). He emptied the first mag and reloaded with a mag he kept secured to the rifle. He emptied that into the car when someone tried to run him down. He then dropped the rifle and pulled out his pistol.

This was an unusual event in that there were multiple opponents, in the amount of rounds fired by the good guy, and in the fact that a civilian used a full auto weapon in self defense. Still, it was self defense and reloading was involved.

The whole thing was written up in an Ayoob file. If I can find the link again, I'll post it later.
 
I read the FL story too long ago. I thought the long gun was a S&W 76 9x19 subgun though and I think the handgun was a CA Bulldog.

Ayoob mentioned about how using a class three weapon for self defense causes legal headaches sometimes.
 
Marko Kloos said:
it only proves the point that cops will empty their guns under stress.
Actually the statistics quoted in the article showed that the NYPD cops emptied their guns when they had revolvers but DIDN'T empty their guns when they switched over to higher capacity firearms. They only fired about 8 rounds in an average encounter.
And "civilian" shootings seems to almost never involve reloading.
I think this has a lot more to do with the fact that civilians often don't have a reload handy than it does with whether or not a reload would be useful. I've actually seen people ridiculed on the forums for carrying a spare mag...
 
I read the FL story too long ago. I thought the long gun was a S&W 76 9x19 subgun though and I think the handgun was a CA Bulldog.

I think we're both right. IIRC, he emptied the M-16 into one vehicle to disable it, then reloaded and fired at the driver of the second car who tried to run him down, and then switched to the S&W Subgun and fired over the heads of the rest of the bad guys to suppress them. He also stashed a shotgun on the ground nearby on his way out of the house when it all started. I don't think he ever actually used the revolver, now that I think of it a little more.

I know there's a link to this somewhere. When I have a chance, I'll look for it.
 
The thing is, I simply cannot imagine getting into an armed confrontation and thinking afterward, "You know, I really wish I'd had less ammunition."

pax
 
A cop buddy of mine told me he knows of one officer that carried SEVEN handgun magazines.
 
Did this officer have something like a 1911 pattern gun with a single stack mag or like a Glock 17? I have seen cops carry up to 4 mags, especially if a single stack, but I have also seen 4 15rd Beretta mags being carried too.

Also I think Milt Sparks used to make something called a six pack, a belt carried mag pouch for 1911 mags. I read a story once that a cop assigned to work a detail responding to bank robberies wore that and a couple of pistols.

It was so heavy he wore suspenders and a belt! I have nto really carried a lot of reloads, but carried up to 3 guns in a high robbery risk retail enviorment a long time ago. One of the guns was a NAA revolver though and I carried 4 moonclip reloads for the main gun.
 
regarding the chp newhall shootings of 1970, only one of the four officers involved attempted to reload his weapon. and this officer did not place any of his spent brass into his pocket, or anywhere else on his body, in spite of the misinformation that has persisted for decades.

ed
 
There was an incident near Denver in December, 2003 where a pack of pit bulls mauled one woman to death and attacked another man. The man's son defended him by shooting the dogs with a shotgun that was loaded with birdshot. The son injured one dog and blinded another, but they continued to attack. I can't find the article that specifically said this, but I believe the father told his son to either start using buckshot or the father grabbed another shotgun that was loaded with buckshot. Either way, the larger buck shot is what drove the animals off. They were later shot and killed by police.

In Colorado Springs there was an incident where a Buffalo had escaped from the truck that was transporting it to a meat processing plant. Police were concerned that it would stampede, so they attempted to kill it by using AR-15s loaded with .223. I believe it took 30 rounds to kill the animal. The decision to kill the animal was highly criticized afterward since many believed it was not needed and was inhumane (it was grazing on someone's front lawn). The police also failed to evacuate homes that were potentially in the line of fire.

These are the only cases that I am aware of where reloading was required in a civilian defense scenario (I could easily see a civilian having to defend himself against the buffalo if it had stampeded). In both cases the reload was related to insufficient ammunition instead of lack of hits.
 
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Trebor, the incident you referred to was discussed here on THR.

And here is the original story.


Personally I am a strong believer in having the ability to reload just in case.
Statistics bear out the theory that in most civilian self defense actions NO shot is needed.
So does this mean that carrying an unloaded weapon is a viable approach? :scrutiny:


Just because the presence of a gun is more important that the presence of ammunition doesn't mean you shouldn't have all you can carry.
:evil:
 
Here's a story of a LEO who needed to do a left-hand-only reload. Of course, she's not an ordinary citizen, but if those had been my children, I can picture myself doing what she did: wade into the situation in order to save the kids.

From http://archive.parade.com/2005/0918/0918_cop_of_the_year.html

‘I Wasn’t Going To Die There’

By Larry Smith
Published: September 18, 2005

Isola Allen, 32, was preparing to drive her son Dextin to school one morning when three men pulled into the driveway, blocking her path. One of them pushed himself into Allen’s van and drove it back into the garage. All three then forced her out of her vehicle and into the family’s home in Pine Hills, Fla.

Stranded with his 2-year-old twin sisters in the van, Dextin, 8, reached into his mother’s purse and used her cell phone to call 9-1-1. Orange County Deputies Dwayne Martin and Kevin Curry responded, followed shortly by Deputy Sheriff Jennifer Fulford and a trainee.

Seeing the police outside, the robbers sent Allen to tell them that everything was all right. Instead, she told them her family was under attack.

“My babies, my babies!” she cried, pointing toward the van. The three gunmen were alone in the house, with easy access to the adjoining garage.

Fulford didn’t hesitate. “I’m going to try to get the kids,” she said. She walked to the garage, followed by Deputy Martin.

“I crouched beside the van, but the doors were locked,” Fulford recalls. “I began hearing voices from the house, and then I heard three or four shots.” Fulford hit the floor and radioed the call sign “232”: Shots fired.


Seconds later, George Jenkins, 25, appeared behind the van and began shooting at Fulford. “I was behind the left wheel well, maybe 8 feet away,” she says. “His first few shots missed me, and I hit him with my Glock .45. He fell back and slid down the wall in a seated position, but he kept firing.

“I ducked behind the van,” Fulford continues. “I sensed movement up front, and there was John Dzibinski. He began firing across the hood.” Dzibinski, 26, hit Fulford in the right knee and in the left ankle, thigh and buttock. “Bullets were ricocheting everywhere off the concrete floor,” she recalls.

Meanwhile, Jenkins was still firing from against the wall. One of his bullets hit Fulford in the right shoulder—her shooting arm.

“I lost feeling and dropped my gun but managed to grab it with my left hand,” she says. “I knew Dzibinski was still out there.”

Jenkins stopped firing and began to moan, but Dzibinski picked up where he’d left off. Fulford hit him twice in the head. Dzibinksi then stumbled out into the driveway, where he shot Deputy Martin in the shoulder. The felon finally collapsed when Martin managed to shoot him in the leg.

Still on the floor of the garage, “I saw blood running out of my sleeve,” Fulford recalls, “and I felt light-headed. I blacked out for a few seconds and then I heard Kevin [Curry] yelling my name, asking if I was OK. I said, ‘No, please help me. Get me the heck out of here.’ ”

Deputy Fulford was rushed to the hospital and treated for multiple gunshot wounds. The doctors patched her up fine, Fulford says, though one bullet remains in her left buttock. She also suffered nerve damage in her right arm and is gradually getting the feeling back.

The shootout in Pine Hills took place on May 5, 2004. Deputy Fulford returned to active duty less than four months later, on Aug. 30, and she married in September.

“When you go through something like that,” she says, reflecting on her ordeal, “mindset is really important. I was not going to die in that garage.”

Luckily, she explains, “We had just received training for off-hand shooting. They teach you how to shoot with your weak hand, reload, rack the slide with your gunbelt or your shoe.”

Deputy Fulford was carrying a Glock .45, semiautomatic. “It probably sounded like an automatic that day,” she says. “I was not thinking about what I was doing, I was just reacting. I’m glad I had that training.”

The entire shootout lasted less than 50 seconds. Jenkins died in the garage; Dzibinski died in a hospital eight days later. The third man, Shaun Byrom, then 20, had remained in the house and eventually surrendered.

At the crime scene, police found 341 pounds of marijuana and $54,000 in cash. The suspects had planned to steal the contraband from Isola’s husband, Clinton, who was in Jamaica at the time. Mrs. Allen served two months for marijuana trafficking and agreed to testify against Byrom—who received a life sentence and will be eligible for parole in 10 years—as well as her husband, who is awaiting trial. The children stayed with relatives while their mother was in jail.

It wasn’t exactly a happy ending, but Fulford knows it could have been much worse: “If those men had closed the [garage] door and taken the kids hostage,” she says, “they probably would have ended up dead.” And how does she feel about having risked her own life to save them?

“Those kids didn’t choose to be there,” Fulford says. “I had to do what I could to get them out.”

Deputy Fulford was honored by the International Association of Chiefs of Police and PARADE at the IACP’s convention on Sept. 27 in Miami Beach, Fla.

pax
 
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