Reloading .45 Colt

[Nightcrawler]

As I've said, I have a beautiful Smith & Wesson Model 25-5 6" in .45 Colt. The gun is nice, but is unfortunately not as strong as a Ruger. The cylinder walls are thin, and the locking detents in the cylinder seem to be made in the very thinnest part of it for some reason.

In any case, if I start reloading .45 Colt soon, what would be considered safe loads? I know nothing about reloading, but understand that this isn't a Blackhawk or a Redhawk and "Ruger/TC Only" means just that. But I've read a few articles here and there about medium-warm loads that are safe in a 25-5, while still providing plenty of power.

Buffalo Bore emailed me and told me that they're working on a .45 Colt load that pushes a 255 grain bullet to 1000 (!!) feet per second, but advances in powder technology allow it to be low pressure enough to be safe in S&Ws and even Uberti clones (though they have no idea when it'll be finished). Barring that, the hottest stuff I currently have is a box of Cor-Bon self-defense loads, 200 grains at 1100 feet per second.

That's a pretty good load, actually. Not an especially heavy bullet, but 537 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.

But if I were to start reloading, what would be considered safe? Could I get a 255 grain bullet safely to 950 feet per second?

Tips from the reloaders would be appreciated.

 

[Walosi]

There are many loads in the various manuals that show velocities at or above 950 fps, with lead 255 gr. without going into the "Ruger/TC Only" category. I keep mine in the 850-900 range with this bullet and have plenty of power without risking excessive battery on the Smiths. My favorite load is the max. listed by Winchester for W231, 7.1 gr. for 875fps. This runs a fairly consistant 900 fps in my 4" MG, and 850 in a 4" 25-5. VERY accurate in both guns.

 

[1badmagnum]

I'm using surplus wc820f from gibrass,its reccommended to use hs-7 data,I also use it as hs-6,as these powders are right next to each other on the burn rate chart.a good load with this powder is 11-12 grains under 250 or 300 grain bullets.$80 delivered for 8 pounds.

 

[JohnK]

950 fps is easily reached in the S&W 45 Colt. In my 5" 25-7 13.5gr of Bluedot under a Leadheads 270gr LSWC does 1,050 fps. I've shot close to 1,000 of these though mine so far without any problems or signs that there will be any problems. The gun is as tight and accurate as when I bought it. This is one of the most accurate loads in this gun.

7.5gr of HP38 (or Win231) does 850 fps in my 5" Smith or 5.5" Ruger under a 270 or 255gr LSWC. It's the most accurate load I've found for my Ruger and shoots very well in the Smith too.

9.0gr of Unique under a 310gr LBT from Leadheads went 895 fps in my 5" Smith, accuracy was Ok but it shot very high.

John Linebaugh says (his opinion of course, but he knows as much as anyone about the 45 Colt) that using hard cast Keith or LBT style bullets the max load for a S&W 25-5 is a 260gr @ 1,200 fps or a 310gr @ 1,100 fps. I respect his opinion, but that's hotter than I've put through my 45 Colt Smith.

 

[Nightcrawler]

WOW. If I start loading, I'll trust John Linebaugh. I'll work up to that SLOWLY, though. Fortunately, if I by chance damage my 25-5, I'll only be out $300, as that's all I paid for it. I didn't buy it to be a collector's item.

Still, I like it too much to blow up. 250 grains at 1050 feet per second is impressive, to say the least. Coolness!

 

[Jim March]

That Buffalo Bore project sounds way cool. We need a good "48-state woods load" for 45LCs that aren't as strong as a Ruger. Those still must be avoided in the Italian Schofields(!) or the percussion conversions/open-tops.

The new Beretta Stampede is, I predict, going to be VERY popular as it's an SAA type with a transfer bar, that doesn't SUCK WIND like the Colt Cowboy did :banghead:.

For that matter, while the 45LC Bird's-Head Rugers *can* take the "Ruger ONLY" monster-loads without hurting the *gun*, the recoil is such that the "light woods load" contemplated will be popular with the owners of the small Rugers.

I suspect these "non-Ruger 45LCs" (esp. the S&W N-frames) should be fed mostly Cowboy-grade fodder, and a limited diet of "255 @ 1,000/200 @ 1,100" warm stuff.

 

[JoeHatley]

The load I use to feed mine is 7.2 grains Bullseye with a 200 grain Rainier plated SWC. Around 900 fps in my 6" 25-5.

Joe

 

[J Miller]

Cowboy loads? YUCK!!! Thats the second to the last thing I WONT feed my S&W 25-5!! My gun flat hates them. Wont group with that crap at all. None of my .45 Colts will. I don't even use that junk for plinking.

As I sit and write this my 25-5 has 6659 rounds through it. Most of them have been the "REAL" factory or equivilent loads. 7.1 of 231, or 8.5 Unique, with a 250-255 grain bullet. Some jacketed bullets, mostly Hornadys 250 JHP at the max velocity for a standard SAA loads.
My standardized outdoor loads has been a 255gr Keith SWC on top of 9.0 Unique. This is just over the max for standard SAA loads and does not exceed what this S&W can safely handle.

Anybody who loads for a S&W 25-5 or other model MODERN S&W .45 Colt doesn't have to feed it cowboy loads. THEY ARE NOT FRAGILE!
But neither do you want to feed them a steady diet of +P Ruger style loads. That is just plane idiotic.

OH, The first thing I WONT feed my 25-5: John Linebaugh's loads. Thats guaranteed to ruin, or blow it up.

Be carefull, use common sense, read the loading manuals. Like Buffalo Bore is saying, the modern powders can give us more horsepower out of the old calibers at ACCEPTABLE pressure levels. There is no need at all to magnumize a S&W .45 Colt.
There are many loads from light bullets to heavy that are good accurate and deadly without destroying a good revolver with Linebaugh pressure loads.

 

[Steve Smith]

John Linebaugh does not destroy his cary guns. When he destroys a gun it in intentional. I know him and I know that he knows what he is doing.

 

[JohnK]

When most people think of "Linebaugh 45 Colt loads" they think of the moster loads for his 5 shot conversions. Not surprising since that's what he's famous for. However the loads I said he recommends for the Smith are what he shoots in his 25-5s, and are from an article he wrote specifically about the 25-5 and it's limitations.

 

[J Miller]

JohnK,

When most people think of "Linebaugh 45 Colt loads" they think of the moster loads for his 5 shot conversions. Not surprising since that's what he's famous for. However the loads I said he recommends for the Smith are what he shoots in his 25-5s, and are from an article he wrote specifically about the 25-5 and it's limitations.

I stand corrected about my comment refering to Linebaugh pressure loads.
You are correct, when I hear the name Linebaugh I automaticly think of the monster loads. I haven't read the article you refered too about his 25-5 cary loads. I would like to, do you have a link to it?

 

[JohnK]

J Miller,
Unfortunately I don't have a link (yet) to this article since John hasn't put it on his site. It's from and old issue of the news letter he used to send out. I'll email you a copy of the one I have.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Impressive loads...

Here's some muzzle energy data for various .45 Colt loads, courtesy of the Muzzle Energy Calculator. I use kinetic energy as a measure because it's the only scientific way to measure the "power" of a round fired.

First, I'll start with factory loads.

Cor-Bon's 200gr @1100 fps load creates 537 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle.

Winchester 225 grain Silvertips, leaving the muzzle at 920 feet per second, generate 423 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.

Winchester 255 grain Super-X LRN leaves the barrel at 860 fps, for 420 foot-pounds.

Winchester 250grn LRNFP Cowboy Loads, at 750 fps, create an anemic 312 foot-pounds of energy.

For comparison, examine some .45ACP loads.

Standard .45ACP is a 230 grain bullet @ 850 fps. This creates about 369 ft-lbs of energy. .45ACP +P pushes a 230 grain bullet to 950 fps, for 460 ft-lbs. .45 Super pushes that bullet to 1150 fps or so, for 675 ft-lbs. (Lighter bullets will have higher velocities.)

Now, compare that to some of the handloads mentioned here.

JoeHatley's 200gr @ 900fps creates 359 ft-lbs.

JohnK's loads are as follows:

270gr @ 1050fps: 661 ft-lbs
310gr @ 895fps: 551 ft-lbs

And John Linebaugh's Maximums would create more than this, but I don't know that I'd push it that much.

260gr @ 1200fps: 863 ft-lbs
310gr @ 1100fps: 832 ft-lbs

I'm happy to see that my 25-5 is more capable than I thought it was.

 

[Mannlicher]

A load I have favored for years in my 25-5, is 13 grains of BlueDot under a 225 gr Speer JSP. Outstanding accuracy, with about 1100fps out of my 6 inch barrel.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Any tips on a compact, inexpensive reloading setup? Until I move away and get my own place (I live at the dorm at college, Univ. regs prohibit me from having gunpowder there) I'm very cramped for space. I basically have one small desk in my room that I could use for reloading.

I'll mostly reload .45 Colt, but maybe .45ACP also.

 

[Oracle]

Nightcrawler,

You could try a Lee Loader, that is very small, although it is slow. I've been meaning to get one to put in my pack.

 

[Walosi]

I'll second the Lee lineup. I'm using an old Lee turret that was an anniversary issue quite a few years ago. It came in a hardrock maple case that could be drilled to take mounting bolts, set up o a kitchen table and then re-packed. Slow, yes, but I enjoy the process almost as much as shooting the result, and just never felt a need to go into anything fancier.

 

[TallPine]

The "Lee Loader" is okay, if you don't mind about 30 mallet blows per finished round. Kind of noisy and tiresome, and you need some solid surface to work on. Good therapy and stress relief, I guess.

Lee Challenger press is a good basic bench mounted press. No complaints about it except the primer "catcher"

They also make a "hand press" that takes a regular die set. Never used one, but it looks a heck of lot better than the "Lee Loader" ... would be good for a "briefcase" reloading outfit.

Then ... Cabelas has these 1800s style loaders, kind of a big pair of plier like things - supposed to be authentic pattern that you would have carried in your saddlebags. Pretty expensive though, about 30 bucks for the handles and another 30 bucks for the die, which can't be used in a regular press. But if you were buying $100 "cowboy" pants for your SASS outfit, I guess you might not care.

 

[Bob C]

While in an apartment I kept my press, measures, etc. in a trunk size wooden box. I had a piece of 2x8 which I would bolt to the top of the wooden box with enough overhang to mount the press. I had to sit in the floor to load, but I was younger and more agile then.

My experience with loading revolver cartridges with a Lee Loader were much less satisfactory. The fired cases aren't quite resized, and the cylinders of the revolver I had at the time weren't quite the same size, so cases that wouldn't chamber properly were frequent.

 

[Oracle]

Nightcrawler,

I just looked in my Speer Reloading Manual #13 (the latest edition), and all of the regular-pressure .45 Colt loads were worked up using a S&W 25-5 as the test firearm, so all of those loads should work for you.

I agree with what others have said, the Lee Loader is a pain, but, it does work. I know several people who have taken a regular turret press (Lee, RCBS, etc.) and mounted it on a board, then used vise grips or c-clamps to mount that to whatever work surface they had to work with. Pretty compact, and could be easily packed away underneath the bed, in a closet, etc.

 

[TallPine]

This is how I set up my Lee Challenger press:

I cut a 1 x 8 about 3 inches longer than the "target table" was wide. Bolted the press to one end of the board and clamped the board crossways on the table with c-clamps. The clamp in front on the right side of the board/press with the handle down, and the one in the back on the left side of the board handle up - keeps them out of the way and equalizes the stress. (the press is bolted to the part of the board which overhangs the front of the table) I also mounted the powder measure about a foot behind the press.

This works for pistol ammo - I don't know if it would work for necked rifle ammo because of the greater stress. As it is, the table and board have a little flex.

But we are moving in a couple weeks and I intend to mount the press on a much more substantial foundation in the new place.

Still ... if I were in a tight accomodations, I would check out that Lee hand press that uses regular dies. The press itself is less that $20 IRRC and it would always be handy to have around even if you got a bench mounted press later. I might even yet get one myself just to throw in the pickup "just in case"