Reloading: Can I reload +P and +P+ cartridges (9mm)

[Shinken]

I know that my handgun has to be spec'ed to handle +P and/or +P+ ... if it does, will I be able to reload those cartridges (in 9mm caliber)? Or are these "specialty" items that are purchase only?

CC

 

[rantingredneck]

You can, but the question is why??

There's a school of thought (which I subscribe to) that you shouldn't carry reloaded ammo.

Can't think of another reason to need +P or +P+ ammo in 9mm.

My advice is reload for plinking/target and buy the good stuff for carry.

 

[Shinken]

There's a school of thought (which I subscribe to) that you shouldn't carry reloaded ammo.

Oh really? Although I thought about that, I then decided I can make very reliable cartridges for CCW purposes by checking, triple checking, weighing etc... but I still see your point.

CC

 

[evan price]

For your basic target practice, a +P or +P+ is just basically not necessary. A paper plate won't care how hard the bullet punches through.
For simulating your daily carry ammo, sure. But to blast 500 rounds into a hillside is just more wear and tear on your gun and hand for no good reason.

The reason so many say not to use reloads for self defense ammo is apparantly Massad Ayoob discovered several prosecutors who will talk about how you manufactured your ammo "More deadlier" or "More dangerouser" or some nonsense instead of using factory ammo, to make you look bad in case of a SD shooting.
Personally, I want to leave no excuses. SD ammo is expensive, but a brick of it lasts a while. I can load simulated Gold Dots using Rainier HPs and shoot them all day long for $10 a box and save the $25 a box stuff for the real thing.

I *do* load +P 9mm for my carbine, because it cycles better.

 

[Steve C]

Reloading manuals list loads that will push the same velocity as factory rounds rated as +P and even +P+. Don't get hung up on the +P designation. (IE: 124gr bullet out the muzzle at 1,200 fps + and 115gr bullets at 1,300 fps +.)

These are loads to be worked up and not just cook booked together.

A chrono should be used to compare factory rounds out of your test pistol to your hand loads. Don't expect to get top velocities from short barreled guns.

 

[Idano]

You can, but the question is why??

There's a school of thought (which I subscribe to) that you shouldn't carry reloaded ammo.

Can't think of another reason to need +P or +P+ ammo in 9mm.

My advice is reload for plinking/target and buy the good stuff for carry.

All I can say to that is wow; certainly not the philosophy I learned thirty some years ago.

Shinken,

I reload the hottest load that I can get the most consistency and tightest group out of for all my guns and I don't vary the loads just for practicing. IMO you need to practice with consistent ammo so your comfortable with the recoil and know the trajectory of your ammo if your gun is a tool you depend on, otherwise if just a toy then it really doesn't matter does it?

Debating whether to carry reload versus factory is kind of debating existence of the after live; no one knows until they are there. Personally I carry reloads, in fact I never buy factory ammo. I am about as worried of be prosecuted for using reloads as I am of dying from global warming.

 

[lgbloader]

Idano Quote:
Originally Posted by rantingredneck
You can, but the question is why??

There's a school of thought (which I subscribe to) that you shouldn't carry reloaded ammo.

Can't think of another reason to need +P or +P+ ammo in 9mm.

My advice is reload for plinking/target and buy the good stuff for carry.

All I can say to that is wow; certainly not the philosophy I learned thirty some years ago.

Shinken,

I reload the hottest load that I can get the most consistency and tightest group out of for all my guns and I don't vary the loads just for practicing. IMO you need to practice with consistent ammo so your comfortable with the recoil and know trajectory of your ammo if your gun is a tool you depend on, otherwise if just a toy then it really doesn't matter does it?

Debating whether to carry reload versus factory is kind of debating existence of the after live; no one knows until they are there. Personally I carry reloads, in fact I never buy factory ammo. I am about as worried of be prosecuted for using reloads as I am of dying from global warming.

Idano,
That was heavy and certainly made quite alot of sense and worth a great deal of pondering...

As I drink my good night beer, I toast to you, Sir.

Cheers...

 

[Idano]

Thank you and I hope it's a stout and not one of the those clear beers that looks the same going in as it does out.

 

[Walkalong]

I practice self defense shooting with near max loads. Everything else is medium or light. I don't shoot a lot of heavy stuff, just enough to keep reasonably sharp.

 

[gloriavoxdei]

If you shoot gold dots for your ccw load than you can pretty much duplicate the factory load in a handload. Handload your practice rounds to save money and carry factory ammo just incase. I can't handload my carry ammo (agency issues us Federal HST) since the bullets aren't available but when I was a civi I loaded golden sabors for practice and carried factory. I just figure it's one less thing to worry about if you ever have to use your weapon. I'm not concerned about procecution in my state for ccw or leo but it gives the papers less to attack us with. Practice with your carry ammo if you want to proficient, how you do that is up to you, happy loading B)

 

[The Bushmaster]

Would someone point out what load manual shows a +P or +P+ designated load? All I see are less then mild to mild to hot or maximum load data. I bet anything that the commercial packaging of +P is just a gimmic (better known as "hype") as none of my 6 manuals list a +P or +P+ listing. The only listing I have seen is .38 Special +P data. And that's because the earlier .38 Special revolvers were not as strong as those today (a very old cartridge).

As far as carrying handloads or to carry factory loads is concerned. We have discussed this on numerous threads on here and other sites to the point that it has becomes boring. I carry Federal hydra-Shoks and hand loads depending what I have on hand at the time...I use no exotic bullets. Just bulk Remington JHP (9mm X 19 summer carry) and SJHP (.357 magnum winter carry). These hand loads are well documented and logged.

 

[gloriavoxdei]

I agree w/ bushmaster, I've seen that topic way too much on other threads. Carry what your comfortable with and is reliable in your gun. End of discussion. As for +P loads I have seen them in manuels before but for the life of me can't remember where.

 

[jmorris]

I know that my handgun has to be spec'ed to handle +P and/or +P+ ... if it does, will I be able to reload those cartridges (in 9mm caliber)? Or are these "specialty" items that are purchase only?

You could load up rounds that will render a pistol a locked up and destroyed paper weight. Shy of that would be +p+ and down from that would be +p. This is why we “work up” a load instead of “work down”.

The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute (SAAMI) has set a pressure ceiling for standard pressure 9mm Para at 35,000 pounds per square inch (psi). By contrast, NATO pressure ceiling is 42,000 psi. In-between U.S. standard pressure 9mm and NATO spec, we have two options. 9mm +P has a SAAMI pressure ceiling of 38,500 psi. There’s no SAAMI spec for 9mm +P+; that’s just a way of saying its pressures exceed +P standards.

why? “major 9” is quite common in USPSA (in pistols built for this purpose). It’s a lot cheaper to shoot than 38 super. They would definitely classify as +p+.

 

[rcmodel]

If you feel a pressing need to use +P+ in a 9mm, the best thing to do would be to get a bigger gun.

.357 SIG, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP, all those come to mind.

rcmodel

 

[Shoney]

What jmorris said deserves repeating:
SAAMI has no standard for +P+.
SAAMI has a 9mm +P pressure ceiling of 38,500 psi.
NATO has a 9mm pressure ceiling of 42,000 psi, but this is intended for sub guns (like Uzi) not pistols.

If you check loading data closely, there are standard pressure 9mm loads which duplicate and/or out-perform some of the +P loads.

 

[rantingredneck]

All I can say to that is wow; certainly not the philosophy I learned thirty some years ago.

Shinken,

I reload the hottest load that I can get the most consistency and tightest group out of for all my guns and I don't vary the loads just for practicing. IMO you need to practice with consistent ammo so your comfortable with the recoil and know the trajectory of your ammo if your gun is a tool you depend on, otherwise if just a toy then it really doesn't matter does it?

By all means do what you are comfortable with. Personally my 230 gr. FMJ reloads shoot to the same POI as the Hornady TAP 230gr. loads I carry in my .45's. I run enough of the TAP through my carry and bedside guns each range trip to be comfortable with it.

For just poking holes in paper though I reload FMJ's and not to max.

 

[wrangler5]

Both the Accurate #2 and Speer #13 books list +P loads for 38 Special and 38 Super, but those are the ONLY ones. I thought I remembered more +P data, but they do say the mind is the first thing to go.

FWIW, I shot 10 "regular" and 10 +P 124g Speer Gold Dots across a chrono with my Glock 19 recently. The +P averaged only 40fps faster. I decided it wasn't worth fooling with for that little gain (I carry factories, but load duplicates of the factory loads to practice with, and decided I didn't want to have to try to keep headstamps separate, but also didn't want to put any +P loads in standard cases.)

 

[Jim Watson]

books list +P loads for 38 Special and 38 Super, but those are the ONLY ones.

The reason they are willing to do that is because .38 Special was originally a black powder cartridge and any sound modern revolver will stand a good deal of something hotter than that. The .38 Super is rated as +P relative to the original 1900 vintage .38 Auto and does not mean that a .38 Super +p is any hotter than .38 Super ammo loaded before the designation was dreamed up.

Other calibers, the +P loads are about 10% over standard and that matters in a high pressure round to start with.

If you want extra velocity but don't have to stroke your ego with a +P label, you can find the loads in print, as said. I found that top listed 9mm standard loads of Power Pistol will give substantially better velocity than factory and with enough blast and flash to feel like even more.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Shinken,
One of the knocks against the 9mm is over-penetration. If you go to a +P or even a +P+ round that would only increase the likelihood of your round over penetrating. I would think a good 124gr JHP bullet pushed to ~1,100 fps or just a little more would be a better choice for carry than that same bullet pushed to 1,250 fps or faster. Even a 147gr JHP at ~1,000 fps would be a good choice IMO.

If you are really set on reloading screamer rounds for the 9mm I would suggest you use these powders:
115gr JHP = Powder Pistol or HS-6
124gr JHP = HS-6, Longshot, AA#5 or Power Pistol
147gr JHP = Longshot or IMR X-800

Bold = My favorite powder for that bullet weight.

 

[Shinken]

115gr JHP = Powder Pistol or HS-6

I have been using Bullseye also made by Alliant Powder, may have to try get some Pistol Power and try next time Thanks.

CC