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Reloading for 7.5 Swiss

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Lucky Jim, Sep 18, 2003.

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  1. Lucky Jim

    Lucky Jim Member

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    I have just gathered everything up to reload for my K31 SR in 7.5 x55 and am planning on using 170 grain Laser Cast gas checked bullets. I have always read that you are not supposed to seat the gas check past the case neck. On the 7.5 Swiss I have to seat the bullet so deep that the gas check is way past the case neck. What kind of problem, if any, will seating the gas check past the case neck cause?
     
  2. Dave P

    Dave P Member

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    Are cast bullets cheaper than the 308 surplus rounds? I wonder why you are using them ...
     
  3. Dave R

    Dave R Member

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    Dave, are you talking about surplus .308 _bullets_ or rounds?

    Cast bullets are probably significantly cheaper than commercial .308 bullets for reloading. I hear the .308 bullets work real well in 7.5 Swiss. But if you don't need premium bullets, I see no reason why cast wouldn't work. Other than you might get significant leading if you're driving those cast bullets at normal speeds. Are the laser cast bullets jacketed?

    Jim, are you using 7.5 brass, or are you forming it from another case?
     
  4. CMcDermott

    CMcDermott Member

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    Really depends on what type of gas checks are on the bullets. Hornady style gas checks actually crimp onto the base of the bullet - so they can't fall off and give any problems. Lyman style gas checks just slip onto the base of the bullet - so it is possible for them to fall off inside the case and create problems when you fire the ammo - up to potentially causing the rifle to "blow-up" when you fire the following round (they can get stuck in the bore if they fall off the bullet base). If you can easily slip the gas check off of the bullet, don't use them. If you can't pull the gas checks off by hand - then there shouldn't be any problem using them.
     
  5. 444

    444 Member

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    I have loaded cast bullets in 7.5 Swiss. I used RCBS #30-180-FN
    82014 bullet, sized .309 in a Lee sizer and a Hornady gas check. I used a powder charge of 13.0 grains of Red Dot. The bullets were cast with lead shot, dropped into water and lubed with liquid alox.
    I didn't do any serious accuracy testing. I shot them all a steel plate at 200 yards. Accuracy on those targets was good once I figured the sight dope. I believe I was using the 600 meter sight setting. I didn't get any leading with this load.
    I didn't pay any attention to whether or not the gas check was below the case neck. Never heard any mention of it until now.
    This bullet mould was purchased for use in the .30-30, but since it was the only .30 rifle bullet mould I owned, I used it.
     
  6. Johnny Guest

    Johnny Guest Moderator Emeritus

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    444-----

    About what weight does the 30-180-FN bullet turn out, with gas check in place? Actually 180?

    Have you chronographed that load?

    Thanks,
    Johnny
     
  7. 444

    444 Member

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    The bullets weight approx. 193 grains lubed, with the gas check.

    Yes, I did chrono them but I don't remember what it was now.

    I have used that load in several different calibers (7.62x54R, .30-06, .30-30, 6.5 Sweede, 8mm). I got the load from an article entitled "Quick Cast Bullet Loading for Military Bolt Guns" in the Laser Cast Shooter's Journal which is a newsletter put out by Laser Cast.
    Here are a couple quotes from the article; "Assembling cast bullet loads for military rifles is relatively easy-you only need one powder and one powder charge, which works fine in cartridges like .30-06, .308 Win, .303 British, 7.62x54R, 7.5 MAS, 7.5 Schmidt Rubin, 8mm Mauser and 7.7 Arisaka. The cartridge should have the powder capacity of a 300 Savage and the bullet needs to be in the normal weight range for that cartridge. "
     
  8. 1911sr

    1911sr Member

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    Hi, LuckyJim!

    I would like to help if I may. My specialty is 7.5 Swiss.Maybe I can ask a few questions first, no?
    Are your bullets hardcast? How did you decide your seat depth? Are you using Norma, INDEP, RUAG or .284 brass? And you must have a reason for using cast instead of .308 bullets, no?


    :^)
     
  9. Matt Dillon

    Matt Dillon Member

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    Loads for the 7.5 Swiss

    Do you have recommendations for components (brass, powders, etc.) for the Swiss 7.5 round? I have been seriously thinking about buying a K-31, but heard that ammo was rather scarce, and good reloadable brass was hard to come by.
    Can any .308 bullet be used for this round? I'd like to use this for hunting, as well as target practice; do you have recommendations for bullets to use with this round?
    What do you all suggest as far as dies for this round? Do you know if Lee makes a die for this round? I like Lee dies, and use them for several other calibers. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated, thanks, Matt
     
  10. 1911sr

    1911sr Member

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    Hi, Matthew. I have to go to bed now, but I'll come back tomorrow and type everything you need to know. If you go to Dad's forum its all there too. Just ask for Pierre.
    Go to http://www.swissrifles.com and click on the forums link on the left side of the first page. Or I can talk to you tomorrow. I know most of it and I just ask Dad about the things I might not know.
    Nite!

    :^)
     
  11. Dave P

    Dave P Member

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    Matt, I load them like 308 rounds, using same bullets and powders, etc. Easy to do, and accurate. I use Lee dies for this one, with 284W brass.
     
  12. Dave R

    Dave R Member

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    Matt, I think 1911sr is going to tell you you can just buy .284 brass and run it through the 7.5 Swiss sizer die, and then load it up.

    Is it really that easy?
     
  13. 1911sr

    1911sr Member

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    Hi! Nothing's hard if you understand it.
    Yes, you can just run a ball expander through .284, TTL and then reload it! Make sure the brass is not brittle in the neck first, no? If it is, then you should anneal it first.
    Dave, the 7.5 Swiss does not like all of the powders used in .308. Ball powders don't give anywhere near the accuracy of extruded powders like 4064, 4320, A4350, N160 and some IMRs like 3031.
    Dad has spent over 40 years developing loads just for Swiss rifles. He has reams and reams of load data. The simple truth is that the original GP11 bullet of 175gr performs best in the 1911sr, k11sr, k31, zfk3155 and the PE57.
    If you stop and think about it, the GP11 was developed by the Swiss just for those rifles.
    Here are a few loads that will shoot moa or very close in any k31.

    Sierra 168gr
    46.8gr of H4350
    Seat the bullet at 2.890

    Berger VLD 168gr
    47.4gr of IMR4320
    Seat at 3.0425

    I have lots more with the 175 bullets, but do notice that the seat depths are very important for these rifles. The VLD has a very long nose and the OGIVE is right near the case mouth, that's why the seat depth is what it is.

    This is going to be fun!

    :^)
     
  14. 1911sr

    1911sr Member

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  15. Matt Dillon

    Matt Dillon Member

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    Loading 7.5 swiss

    Is there any die manufacturer that is better than others when it comes to loading/sizing 7.5 Swiss? I use Lee dies for my other calibers, and am perfectly happy with them, but was considering purchasing a set of RCBS. Does anyone else use Lee dies, and what is your recommendation? TIA, Matt.
     
  16. 1911sr

    1911sr Member

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    Matt, we have maybe 10 or more dies sets for the 7.5 Swiss, and I know that Dad has argued with others on the Swiss.com board, but the RCBS have never failed for us. The Lee dies have had problems once in a while, but you'd have to go there and talk to him about it. I only know that most all Lee dies have no problem at all with any calibers except with the 7.5 Swiss once in a while.

    :^)
     
  17. Matt Dillon

    Matt Dillon Member

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    Reloading for the 7.5 swiss

    Well guys, I decided to bite the bullet and buy the 7.5 Swiss Lee dies. They were less than half the prices of the RCBS dies. I hope that I don't have problems with it. Does anyone here use the 7.5 Swiss Lee dies, and if so, do you have to do anything special to make them work in this caliber?
     
  18. 1911sr

    1911sr Member

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    Matt, I wish you had bitten it deeper and bought the RCBS, or at least talked to someone experienced first.

    :^)
     
  19. Matt Dillon

    Matt Dillon Member

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    Loads for the 7.5 Swiss

    Thanks, 1911SR, but I will try these and see how things go. I'm sure that others have used the Lee dies satisfactorily, and I just couldn't justify spending more than double for the RCBS dies. Anyway, if they won't work out, I'll sell them on eBay and then purchase the RCBS dies.
    While on Midwayusa.com, I did purchase some of those 168 grain match king bullets. These are pretty good for this load, aren't they?
    Who has the best deal on brass for this caliber? I hope to go to a gun show next weekend and pick up a box of G11, but was wondering to whom I should look for some good brass? Also, do you have any load recipes using IMR 4350? I have a little bit of this powder, as I also use this powder to load for my .303 British Enfield. Thanks!
     
  20. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    The only place i know of that has reasonably priced brass for 7.5 swiss is Graf & Sons www.grafs.com Its reported to be new manufactured brass (not reformed .284) and it is a hell of a lot cheaper than norma ($28/100). Their site is kinda tricky but just do a search for "swiss" and it should turn up. I should tell ya i have ZERO experience with this stuff. Im just passing on what ive heard from others.
     
  21. 444

    444 Member

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    Graf's

    These two recent threads about the 7.5x55 reminded me to call Graf & Sons and ask them about the brass. They said they are a couple weeks out yet. They said that last year they manufactured the same brass and didn't have near enough of it to fill the orders they recieved, so make sure you have your order in before it is gone. I am glad I called because I have been waiting so long that my credit card has expired, so I made a new order for 500 brass and 500 Sierra 168 gr. Matchkings.
    That should last me a lifetime. If they have the brass, and I have the money, I will wait a couple weeks after getting this order and order 500 7.62x54 cases also.
     
  22. 1911sr

    1911sr Member

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    Ok, Mathew. Its sorta fun here. You'd be surprised how many guys won't even respond to a post from a girl.
    Anyway, this is a link to Dad's reloading data.
    http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/data.html You will find loads with that powder in there.

    There are other links in there for Dad's accurizing and reloadiing methods. He doesn't post anywhere else on the net now cuz he's really busy, but he is the chief moderato there and he'll take time to talk to you I'm sure.

    I'm going to ask him if I can tell you about the Lee die thing. He doesn't like me to talk about it cuz it's such a touchy subject for a lot of the guys.
    Bye!

    :^)
     
  23. Matt Dillon

    Matt Dillon Member

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    Loading Swiss 7.5

    Please do tell me about the Lee dies - and I don't mind taking advice from a girl who is as knowledgeable as you are about this caliber. I'm glad that you and your father have such a great relationship that you can share an avocation of his with such enthusiasm. Any and all advice is more than welcome, thanks!
     
  24. 1911sr

    1911sr Member

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    I'm afraid I won't explain it right, so I asked Dad if he would come in here and tell you about it. He'll be home from the studio after 3 mountain time. I'll have him post under my name cuz he's not a member here.

    :^)
     
  25. Matt Dillon

    Matt Dillon Member

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    Loading Swiss 7.5

    1911 SR, thanks, I'll look forward to hearing from him. By the way, I did cancel my order at Midway USA (the Lee dies) after having read your dad's article on loading for the 7.5 Swiss.
    With that much experience, I'm going to listen to what he says works! So, I was wondering which RCBS die set he recommends. They have several available at Midway USA, and I was wondering if he had a specific recommendation. Also, while at it, does he have a specific recommendation on a specific year that would be most desirable for the purchase of a Swiss K-31? I'm leaning toward a walnut stock, but I was thinking that perhaps a 1958 model might be best, as it would have the least chance of being fired much. Thanks again for all your helpk 1911SR, and I'll look forward to hearing from you all!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2003
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