Reloading Oregon Trail Laser-Cast 200 grain LRNFP bullets.

[MCMXI]

A couple of months ago I bought 2000 bullets from Oregon Trail, specifically Laser-Cast 200 grain LRNFP, to shoot in a couple of USFA Rodeos and a Marlin 1894. Following numerous recommendations here and referencing sites such as Hodgdon's reloading guide, I bought Trail Boss powder and began loading using 6.0 grains of TB resulting in a velocity around 800 fps and a maximum pressure of around 9,500 psi. Now for the problem, while searching for bullets for my Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt, I "discovered" from The Missouri Bullet Company that the hardness of a cast lead bullet should be matched to the pressure generated in the chamber and barrel according to ...

Optimum BHN = CUPS/(1422*.90)

I contacted Oregon Trail Bullet Company and was informed that ALL of their bullets have a BHN of 24 which isn't advertised on their web site. If I put BHN = 24 in the equation above, the pressure comes out to 30,715 CUP. So according to MBC, the Oregon Trail bullet is WAY too hard to shoot at pressures typically found in SAA clones.

OK ... so now for my question(s). I'm going to order more bullets but with a BHN of 12 - 14 that I'll shoot in the USFA clones and Marlin for CAS type scenarios but I'd like to shoot these 200 grain OT bullets in the Marlin and Ruger at pressures approaching 30,000 CUP. The Hodgdon web site load data for .45 Colt +P starts at 240 grain bullets and all I could find in my Sierra, Speer and Lee reloading manuals are two loads for 200 grain bullets (both in the Speer #11 manual).

200 grain LSWC, W231, 7.3 grains (864 fps), 8.3 grains (989 fps), < 15,900 PSI

200 grain JHP, W231, 10.5 grains (1238 fps), 11.0 grains (1255 fps), < 25,000 CUP

I have W231 powder and I also have H110 (and N120 and N130) and I'd rather not buy another powder so does anyone know of any loads for 200 grain LRNFP bullets using H110 powder (or VV) resulting in pressures approaching 30,000 CUP.

Also, am I over-thinking this i.e. should I just shoot the OT bullets at 800 fps and not worry about the possibility of leading the barrel?

Sorry for the complicated post.

Thanks.

 

[EMC45]

I have to tell you that I used to buy OT bullets. They proved to be way too hard for my shooting. They have a guarantee that you can push there bullets as fast as jacketed. Don't plan on it. I cast all my own now and the hardness is about 9-10 SAECO. They obdurate and fill up the grooves nicely. I got terrible leading and poor accuracy. I wish you luck with your quest.

 

[Jim Watson]

I bought Trail Boss powder and began loading using 6.0 grains of TB resulting in a velocity around 800 fps and a maximum pressure of around 9,500 psi.

So how did they go? Accurate enough? Acceptable leading?
If so, shoot the bullets, not the competitor's advertising.

 

[MCMXI]

I have to tell you that I used to buy OT bullets. They proved to be way too hard for my shooting. They have a guarantee that you can push there bullets as fast as jacketed. Don't plan on it. ... I got terrible leading and poor accuracy.

EMC45, I had to do a search on SAECO and found a SAECO hardness tester on MidwayUSA. I read this about the tester ... "The Vernier scale is calibrated in arbitrary units with pure lead as 0 and linotype as 10." ... so what BHN are your bullets? What velocities/pressure were you loading to when you had the leading problem? Since the OT bullets have a BHN of about 24, that does indicate that they need to be pushed hard in order for obturation of the bullet base to occur. My concern is that the base won't obturate at CAS velocities/pressure which may result in leading as combustion gasses get past the bullet. If I can shoot them at 30,000 CUP this may not be a problem and perhaps this is what they're really designed for.

 

[MCMXI]

So how did they go? Accurate enough? Acceptable leading?
If so, shoot the bullets, not the competitor's advertising.

Jim, I shot 40 loads (6.0 grains of Trail Boss) in my Marlin BEFORE I sent it back to Marlin to have the defective barrel replaced ...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=380587

... I haven't shot it since getting it back. Also, I haven't shot the USFA Rodeos or the Ruger yet so I don't really have any data to go on. This is more of a theoretical decision based on new information that may or may not be correct. I've done quite a bit of research into bullet hardness and companies selling bullets ... many of them that cater to the CAS crowd specifically mention BHN values around 12. Oregon Trail doesn't cater to CAS shooting per se and so I'm certainly not blaming them for making a bullet with a BHN of 24. It's my own fault for not doing enough research and learning. I'm simply trying to make the best out of what I've got. My original plan was to follow John Linebaugh's suggestion (for the .45 Colt Ruger Redhawk) of shooting 250/260 grain when "plinking" and 300/320 grain bullets for hunting/defense applications. Now that I have 2000 bullets that may have been designed for velocites in the 1200 to 1400 fps range (or faster) it'd make sense to shoot them in the Marlin and Ruger at higher pressure rather than waste them. I've found a number of bullet makers that make 200 or 250 grain LRNFP bullets ideal for CAS velocities/pressures.

 

[jhansman]

Some interesting reading here, especially for us non-casters who do shoot lead bullets:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_/ai_n27320048

The author mentions OT bullets specifically.

 

[EMC45]

SAECO 10 is close to BHN22. Still quite hard, but I do not get leading like I have before. I will say that OT 200gr. RNFP .429 bullets do quite nicely with the 44 spec. I used Titegroup though.

 

[dardascastbullets]

Bullet Alloy

Hi 1858,

We have been using 92-2-6 alloy for 16 years which correlates to a BHN of 18-20. Our .44-200 RNFP's may be just what you are looking for. But one word of caution - we do not supply 'cheap' bullets - we only supply reasonably priced, very high quality bullets that we expect you to win those competitions with. The 'cheap' bullets are placed back into the remelt pot. I personally expect you to report back to us about your success using our bullets, after all, we do put a lot of attention into our bullets through our quality control procedures.

 

[SASS#23149]

Heck,shoot them and see what happens.I"ve shot hundreds of Ot bulets,and at cowboy distances cannot see any problem with them,no leading in my guns either.
Leading sometimes seems to be 'gun particular'..not all guns lead with the same bullets is the gist of what I read and hear.

 

[MCMXI]

jhansman, thanks for the link ... I got some useful information from it such as ...

"For all autoloading handguns and for lead alloy bullets to be fired in rifles in excess of 1,500 fps, I vote for linotype. Its BHN is 22. Most commercial casters offer an equivalent and the well-known Oregon Trail brand bills their alloy as 24 BHN. Why would I say "for all autoloading handguns" when some like the .32 Auto or .45 ACP don't operate at high pressures like the .40 S&W or .38 Super? Because an autoloading handgun bullet gets slammed out of a magazine, up a sometimes not-so-smooth feed ramp and into a chamber. It doesn't hurt for them to be a bit on the hard side.

This is interesting since I do load for .45 ACP. I have a couple of thousand 185 grain SWC bullets that I bought years ago. They're the Western Nevada brand (not sure if they're still in business) and I have no idea as to their hardness. I could use our hardness tester at work to measure them. Anyway, perhaps I could shoot those in the USFA Rodeos since the SWC profile won't make a difference in the revolver. I think I'll be loading the Oregon Trail bullets to 1200 to 1400 fps and shooting them in the Marlin and Ruger Redhawk. Mr. Venturino suggests 1500 fps or faster for hard bullets, but from what I've read (Missouri Bullet Company for instance), there's a range on the "ideal" hardness with harder being preferred over softer.

Someone should tell Mr. Venturino that the base of the bullet OBTURATES rather than obDurates!!! Obduration is a medical term that refers to hardening of the arteries or can be used to refer to someone as having a hard heart.