Remington 870 PC mag dimples and locking safety

[jthuang]

That's okay Justin, I've missed all but one IDPA match at Easton this year... hunting for a new abode(I say, house that is!). Enjoy the sand, surf and well, whatever else....

I can do you one better ... haven't attended a single Easton match yet this year and only one Sciota match. I haven't taken a day of vacation from work ... I think the two are somehow related. Best of luck house hunting!

On the origin of my post though, wouldn't the parts I listed do as good as drilling/grinding out the "dimples" on the 870 Express's mag tube?

I can't say I've had experience with your idea but I can't think of a reason why it would NOT work. My dad's 870 Express remains stock and he doesn't really care to install a mag extension.

Justin

 

[dfariswheel]

nvrquit:

"On the origin of my post though, wouldn't the parts I listed do as good as drilling/grinding out the "dimples" on the 870 Express's mag tube?"

Sorry, won't work.

The Remington magazine tube is brazed in place, and is non-removable. Since the tube has the dimples, having the other parts won't help.

As to the Winchester/Remington choice: This is strictly a matter of personal preference. I doubt the average shooter could wear out either.

The Remington has an edge because it's THE American Police shotgun. They literally OWN the police market.
Very, very few, if any Police departments buy the Winchester. The Remington 870 is so good, and has such a great reputation with police agencies and military units, that they have a "mortal lock" on the police shotgun market.
Mossberg sells some, Ithaca sells some, Winchester sells about NONE, and Remington laughs all the way to the bank.

This reputation, (and actual performance under the harsh conditions of police/military usage) has Remington in such a position that no other shotgun maker need apply.
Some years ago, Smith & Wesson was attempting to expand it's then ownership of the police handgun market into the shotgun market. They made a big push in attempting to break into the market with the Model 3000 Howa-made shotgun that was a close clone of the 870, at a lower price. Remington ate their lunch, and S&W slunk back to the pistol market.

Winchester "surrendered" the police/military shotgun market when they discontinued the Model 12. When the Winchester 1200/1300 hit the market the police lost all confidence in Winchester shotguns.

All this isn't to say the Winchester is no good, just that few American police agencies trust it. The few that have tried the post- Model 12 Winchester were very up front in their total dissatisfaction with it's performance, and quickly went back to the 870.

Again, for a civilian shooter the choice is totally personal preference. If you're a police or military agency buying shotguns, Winchester's past performance with the 1200/1300 is the kiss of Death.

 

[nvrquit]

Hmmm, but after...

... the removal of the detents/dimples from the Express magazine tube, the previous ratchet/toothed spring retainer would be somewhat useless for the intended purpose, wouldn't it? With the dimples removed, there would be no manner in which the mag tube spring retainer would be prevented from simply spinning within the mag tube itself, as the mag cap was screwed in place, thus no longer providing any type of "ratcheting" action. This would then no longer retain the mag cap as the spring retainer(Express dimple type) would simply spin with the cap as it was tightened and would/could also simply back off.

The barrel on my 870 Express has the recess for the detent & detent spring, which should allow the usage of the original type mag cap(with the split cup style mag spring retaining washer). I would think this would be a better solution than using an Express style mag cap, should a mag tube extension be removed once the dimples are no longer present. Just seems logical from the explanations and observations available.

BTW, thanks on clearing the manner in which the mag tube is mounted in the 870 series. Funny thing is, Numrich/Gun Parts lists the mag tube as being available as serperate items(on their web site). Thanks again!

 

[dfariswheel]

Exactly.
The "best" methods of dealing with the Express is to either leave it as original, (no mag extension), or convert to the Wingmaster/Police-type mag system.

Every Express barrel I've seen had the hole for the mag cap retention spring and plunger.
In my opinion, if you want to change to the mag extension, and then change back, the best method is to go ahead and buy the Wingmaster mag cap, spring cup, and retention spring and plunger.

You will have to either buy or make up a staking tool to stake the spring and plunger into the barrel support ring, but when you've finished, you have the complete flexibility of the Wingmaster system.

As for the sale of mag tubes by parts houses. Yes they do, but the factory mounts the tube by brazing them in place in an electric oven. This requires some type of holding and aligning fixture, there's the danger of damaging the heat treat or warping the receiver, plus the need to refinish.
I believe the factory considers the tube to be a factory-only replacement item.

All these mag tube assembly problems are the minus side of buying the cheaper Express gun.

Contrary to popular "urban legend", the Remington move to the Express tube assemble was COST driven, not PC. It's simply cheaper to use the plastic parts, formed cap, and dimples than the more expensive cap, steel cup washer, and most expensive of all, the hand labor needed to assemble and stake the retention spring and plunger. That requires human hand labor and that's always expensive.

Again, your choices are:
Stay with the Express non-mag extension.
Change to a mag extension, and stay with that.
Modify the gun to a Wingmaster/Police assemble so you can change at will.
Or, cut to the chase and buy a Police gun or used Wingmaster.

 

[Kharn]

A quick search on www.brownells.com turned up item 080-870-205, I believe thats the proper staking tool for the barrel detent. The detent (767-000-160) and spring (767-000-154) also appear to be available. Magazine cap: 767-253-750, spring retainer: 767-916-570

Kharn

 

[Gewehr98]

Since it wasn't answered earlier in the thread...

I'll ask it again.


Which foreign company owns Remington?

 

[.45&TKD]

How do you put a sling swivel on 870 HD Express?

I have the 870 HD Express with the factory mag extension and no sling swivels. (18" barrel, 6 +1)

Is there good way to put a sling swivel on this synthetic stock?