Remington vs. Savage

[dh1633pm]

I haven't tested the Mag yet. I shoot it one shot at a time. If it didn't have a mag well that would be ok. I can see the problem if you need one and it didn't work right.

 

[Newtosavage]

I've read and heard a lot of complaints about the Savage mags with the plastic clip but personally have had zero issues with mine. They hold up real well through extended use in the field.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I don't own a Savage or a Remington for starters. I have however looked at both while searching for a heavy barrel varmint rifle.

The Remingtons don't have the quality I'm looking for. Savage does. My conversation with a guy at the LGS led me to believe that they are moving away from Remington because of the many guns they receive that they can't sell. They have to send those back due to build issues. I looked at one that had the trigger guard screw thru the receiver about 1/16" too far, LLS

I'm not a huge fan of Savage triggers. Most people vote with their hard earned money and they sell a ton of rifles though. My neighbor has one in 243 and he likes it. He owns just about everything including a pre 60's Winchester M70 and several new Winchesters.

I just purchased a 20" heavy barrel varmint rifle. Because I have a Howa Mini and like it hugely I bought another one, only heavy barrel 20" this time.

Just buy a Savage. Remington is living on their reputation that they are slowly destroying.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have a R700 that I will need to rebarrel or replace someday. . . and it's an expensive prospect. The Savage only requires a barrel, wrench, and two headspace gauges.

There are a barrel maker or two out there that will make a barrel and barrel nut for a Remington 700 similar to the Savage system. I'm not sure if the initial conversion requires any additional work or not.

I might have to try this someday when one of my Remingtons needs a new barrel.

 

[edwardware]

There are a barrel maker or two out there that will make a barrel and barrel nut for a Remington 700 similar to the Savage system. I'm not sure if the initial conversion requires any additional work or not.

The Remage concept! Really neat, but at present it seems one or two shops have a corner on the market and the barrel and nut are so expensive that it's no cheaper than a smith-installed brand-name conventional barrel. Once it comes down in price, I'll be experimenting with it.

 

[JackSprat]

I have owned,and still own more Savage than Remington,so I may be bias,but My aside from an old Stevens 325 30-30,All the Savages I've had have shot very well..I've only had one 700 which was an old wood stocked ADL that was in 270 that I carried for a few years,and took plenty of deer with,but even though it was plenty accurate to hunt with it just wasn't as pin point as I would have liked..It was all scratched up when I got it,which is one reason I liked hunting with it,and at the time I was less picky about glass,so it probably aint a fair comparison...I would bet them 783s with the barrel nut are pretty good shooting..I think Remington has learned from the mistakes of them 770s'and it's type..

 

[someguy2800]

Ever notice how many guns these days come with barrel nuts and the blade safety in the trigger? There is a good reason, its simply the best way to make an accurate rifle with minimal assembly labor and the best way to make a really really good trigger that is safe enough to accept the liability of selling. Savages are cheap cheap cheap. In this case though that's not at all a bad thing because it allows them to make a very good rifle for very cheap and they have quality where it counts. Savage makes absolute top quality barrels, the receivers are always true and correctly drilled, are available with good boyds laminate and McMillan stocks from the factory, and with some free pen springs installed in place of the sear spring and safety blade spring you get a match quality trigger for free. If you want something with beautiful hand craftsmanship than savage is not your thing. If you want the best accuracy $500 can buy then look no further.

 

[Gtscotty]

The Remage concept! Really neat, but at present it seems one or two shops have a corner on the market and the barrel and nut are so expensive that it's no cheaper than a smith-installed brand-name conventional barrel. Once it comes down in price, I'll be experimenting with it.

I don't like Remington 700's, but for those that do, the price of putting a Remage barrel on is really not significantly more than a comperable Savage barrel.

http://northlandshooterssupply.com/match-grade-barrels-2/criterion-remington-remage/

http://www.x-caliber.net/remages

Basically $300 + $30 for a fully finished SS Criterion barrel and nut. It would run probably $300 more to have a smith put on a comperable quality regular barrel.

The X-calibers are a bit more, but everyone I know that has one is really happy with it, especially for the price. Actually one of the guys that always shoots the local long range match rebarreled his .308 700 with an X-caliber 6.5 CM Remage setup and proceeded to win the next couple matches in a row. A barrel obviously won't make the shooter, but it's definitely not holding him back.

 

[Bobson]

Hmm. Supposing I went with a Tikka T3X... does anyone know, do T3 aftermarket stocks also fit the T3X?

 

[Mn Fats]

Again? Remington 700 for me.

Hmm. Supposing I went with a Tikka T3X... does anyone know, do T3 aftermarket stocks also fit the T3X?

I believe so, could be wrong. Mcmillan has them listed as T3/T3X.

 

[Newtosavage]

Hmm. Supposing I went with a Tikka T3X... does anyone know, do T3 aftermarket stocks also fit the T3X?

I just added a stainless Tikka T3x in '06 to my collection of Savages, and it's definitely a shooter. Only rifle I've owned that can honestly keep up with my Savages day in and day out, which is saying something since they are all sub-MOA out of the box.

I didn't realize how "used" to that Savage Accutrigger I had become, and now the Tikka trigger - as nice as it is - is taking me some time to get used to.

If you want the best accuracy $500 can buy then look no further

Agreed 100%

Savages are cheap cheap cheap

Only if you're talking about the Axis models. The standard model 10/110, 11/111, etc. are as expensive - if not more expensive - than the current Remington and Winchester guns if you compare apples to apples. I sure wish they would offer model 11/111's without the package scope deal. Fortunately my .308 model 11 was discovered on the used rack at Cabelas, unfired and without a scope. Not sure how I lucked out on that one but it saved me $150 for a scope I didn't need.

 

[someguy2800]

Only if you're talking about the Axis models. The standard model 10/110, 11/111, etc. are as expensive - if not more expensive - than the current Remington and Winchester guns if you compare apples to apples. I sure wish they would offer model 11/111's without the package scope deal. Fortunately my .308 model 11 was discovered on the used rack at Cabelas, unfired and without a scope. Not sure how I lucked out on that one but it saved me $150 for a scope I didn't need.

By cheap I didn't mean cost, I meant that the internal components such as how the firing pin and spring and the bolt parts go together. Its all designed to be very easy to machine and assemble, but again that's a strength, not a detraction. Its a clever and well executed design. I'd rather have a cheap design made very very well than an elegant design made cheap.

On the side note of Tikka's, my 15 year old T3 is absolutely the most accurate hunting rifle I have ever seen and operates likes its full of melted butter. I assume you already messed with the trigger screw. If you take out that screw you can pull out the spring and replace it to get the pull down even further.

 

[Newtosavage]

Yes, I've adjusted the trigger down to just under 3 lbs (where all my hunting rifles are set) but for some reason 3 lbs on the Tikka feels like more to me than 3 lbs on the Accutrigger, so I plan to bring it down a hair more and see if that helps. Although with groups like I shot yesterday, I probably shouldn't touch a thing! LOL

I get what you mean by inexpensive components though. The Savage is indeed a genius design and probably why they are now taking market share away from Winchester and Remington, and why those two companies are now copying the Savage, although IMO still not catching up.

Winchester and Remington have gotten by far too long on their name recognition IMO. The young folks buying guns today aren't going to feel the same way as we did about deep bluing and fine-grained walnut that the old Model 70's and 700's had and I think Win and Rem are just now figuring that out but it's probably too late for them.

I've spent no less than 8 hrs. at the Cabelas gun counter in the past month, and it's a busy Cabelas. Customers were mostly handling Savages, Tikkas and Henry lever actions if they weren't looking at MSR's.

The only complaint I have about Savages is their stock. Not that what they have now doesn't work - they do - but they could spend another $30 to stiffen that forend on the 11/111's and it would put the whole rifle in another league IMO.

 

[LoonWulf]

By cheap I didn't mean cost, I meant that the internal components such as how the firing pin and spring and the bolt parts go together.

The bolt design irritates me because it requires so much more effort to lift than most other two lug bolts, more even than most of the short throw 3 lugs ive owned/used.
This can be remedied by adjustment, a longer bolt handle, polishing, and some easily made or bought parts. Its still one of those things that annoys me.


I agree savage is ahead of he pack in terms of cost vs performance, i think their real sweet spot are the standard 10/110s on up...and dont forget savage will custom assemble a rifle for you if you contact them (or would a couple years ago when I was looking for something they didnt offer off the shelf). I havent bought a savage in a while tho, mostly because i find them kinda homely, and in the 5-1k dollar range there are cleaner designs that are accurate enough for my needs.

In the "cheap" market i think the RARs out class the Axis, but either offers a really good value.

Tikkas are also a really good value in the 600 dollar range (t3s used to be 450-500 here, not that long ago), they arnt really anything special in terms of design but they are well made and generally very accurate. Im actually considering selling a couple of other rifles and buying a stainless one for bad weather.

 

[Newtosavage]

I think that varies from gun to gun just like it does on many Rem 700's. My .308 bolt is buttery smooth. My 7.62x39 is like you describe however I'm not touching it because of the accuracy I enjoy from that gun.

Certainly, the newer short-throw bolts like the Ruger American and my Tikka seem to have a much easier lift.

 

[someguy2800]

Even in my heavy varmint 223 when opening the bolt on a fired round you can pick up the back of the gun with the bolt handle before it moves (even on a dummy round) It's annoying when bench shooting as I have to brace the stock with my cheek to lift the bolt without moving the gun. I polished all the cam surfaces that cock the firing pin but didn't make much difference. This spring I looked online recently for a remedy and found this

http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/diy/28922-diy-savage-bolt-lift-kit-thought-id-share.html

I copied this and smoothed out the lift but only lessened the bolt lift maybe 15%. The real fix though is I shortened my firing pin spring by quite a bit. I didn't take any pictures but I cut the spring down a good bit and readjusted it. I don't know why savage puts such a monster of a spring in there. After doing that the bolt now lifts just like any other bolt gun and my primer indention's still look the same as before.

 

[Newtosavage]

The real fix though is I shortened my firing pin spring by quite a bit. I didn't take any pictures but I cut the spring down a good bit and readjusted it. I don't know why savage puts such a monster of a spring in there. After doing that the bolt now lifts just like any other bolt gun and my primer indention's still look the same as before.

Interesting.

 

[LoonWulf]

Yeah i did something similar, i used a larger ball bearing and added a spacer between the bolt handle/body and the rear screw to make up for the increased tension. Instead of cutting the firing pin spring I adusted the threaded part thqt holds the cocking thingy back till i got light strikes, then forward till i got consistent ignition, and added 1/2 turn to that.

Otherwise yeah even tho my .250 build weighs 9lbs and change it would lift the gun when i was opening it.
http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/misc...red-savage-bolt-accessory-kit-w-o-handle.html
Seemed like a good option as it allows adjustment to firing spring tension from outside.

 

[bme27]

None of the above. On a budget the Ruger American Predator is better than all 3 and is under $400 out the door. Of course it doesn't have the aftermarket support to buy a different stock. But then it doesn't need one. If I had more money to spend then buy the Tikka CTR.

It does now, Magpul just released an aftermarket stock for the Ruger American series.

 

[someguy2800]

I was just looking and found these instructions online for shortening the spring

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=450082

I honestly don't recall what I shortened mine too. I think I cut the free length to be like 1/4" longer than the original compressed length.

That link above also reminded me that mine actually did retract the striker farther than necessary to cock the action so I adjusted this as well with the threaded collar on the back of the striker.

 

[Bart B.]

Good info on springs:

https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php?page=FAQ#question1

Weakening the factory striker spring in centerfire rifles generally causes greater muzzle velocity spreads and lower averages. Springs are strong enough to dent the hardest primer cups enough to uniformly fire the primer pellet for the pin's weight. Savage springs for both long and short actions put 28 pounds on the firing pins when cocked. More than Win 70 at 23 and Rem 700 at 24.

I think it's best to lengthen bolt handles to ease the bolt's opening. Changing the bolt lube to a slippery one also helps.

 

[someguy2800]

have you seen the striker spring in a savage? It's only slightly lighter than the spring in the front of my 3/4 ton dodge.

 

[LoonWulf]

Bart does make a good point tho. For someone like NtS who has a great shooting gun playing with the springs MIGHT not be worth the risk.

From what i understand savages dont have the fastest lock times either so reducing spring force might be an issue for some shooters. Thats why i like the PTG kit, it allows you to play with that without taking apart your bolt or changing your stock set up.

 

[Bart B.]

Last time I checked, all Savage centerfires have just under 2 ms lock time. Some say fastest of all factory centerfire actions. Rem and Win have about 3 ms lock times and have heavier firing pins than Savage.

 

[Clark]

I have built Remington 700 rifles and I have built Sav 110 type rifles.
I think Savage is even worse than the Rem 700.
They both need a new trigger, barrel, stock, lug.

Mosin Nagants are better.
They need a new trigger, barrel, and stock.

Win 70, Mauser 98 are better still.
They need a new barrel and maybe a stock.

Browning B78 and Ruger #1 are the best.
I hunt with them in original condition.