257WM_CDL-SF
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I have bought a Remington CDL-SF in a 257 Weatherby Mag My question is should it have the same performance as the Weatherby rifle?Also it will be primarily for deer,Any bullet recommendations
Remington Weatherby
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Should have the same performance, for a given barrel length, give or take slight variations between individual rifles.
Haven't used a .257 Weatherby, but I've been contemplating the caliber lately... +/- 3" out to about 320 yards should take a lot of the guesswork out of aiming in wide open spaces.
Haven't used a .257 Weatherby, but I've been contemplating the caliber lately... +/- 3" out to about 320 yards should take a lot of the guesswork out of aiming in wide open spaces.
dubbleA
Member
The long throat/freebore of the weatherby rifles could have an effect, I dont know if the Remington's are the same.
In the end, it's just spliting hair. Enjoy your new rifle!
federalfarmer
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Enjoy! I need, want that gun and caliber --- but in leftie form. :banghead:
Shooting it this weekend I hope?!
Shooting it this weekend I hope?!
GooseGestapo
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There won't be any significant difference in performance. The SAAMI specs for the chamber/throat on the .257wbymag IS the Weatherby spec's so there shouldn't be any ammo compatibility issues.
My Weatherby Vanguard in .257wbymag has the 24"bbl that the Remington has, so..... velocities should be very similar. Most of the data in manuals however, are given for 26"bbls on the Weatherby MkV, so, velocities are 50-100fps slower for the shorter barrel.
I hand load, and haven't and don't own any factory brass (hence ammo,too), so I haven't used any of the factory ammo. However, my hand-loads have used the same bullets.
In a factory ammo deer load, if your deer are under 250lbs typically, I'd recommend the Weatherby factory load with the 100gr Hornady bullet. I shot a doe at ~90yds with one, at a chrono'd mv of 3,550fps. The bullet broke ribs going in and out, but the bullet was balled up under the skin on the far side. Expanded weight was 67.5gr. At greater distances, penetration will be better, and should exit. The largest deer I've ever taken (antler-wise) was a middle Georgia Whitetail 10pt that field dressed 202lbs. I took it in 1983 with a .257Roberts with a mv of 3,000fps with the same bullet. It broke both shoulders, and spine and exited. In fact, the doe described above was the only deer to ever stop one of these bullets. This, and the fact that it's the least expensive factory load for the .257wbymag (BassPro sells them for $38.00, or did the last time I went in one.)
The 117gr Hornady BTSP is excellent, and could be used on elk, but if after elk specifically, I'd use a larger diameter bullet/gun.
Also I've had good performance from the 117gr and 120gr Sierra's, and 120gr Nosler partition. However, I DO NOT RECOMMEND the Nosler 100 or 115gr Ballistic Tips for big game or edible game of any size. They are too frangible for use on big game at the velocities of this cartridge. I had a 115gr Ballistic Tip explode and fragment on a doe. I lost the deer as it got up and ran off after being knocked down and I never got a chance for another shot. I did however find strips of meat laying on the ground, on bushes and a over hanging limb above the deer. Looked like someone was drying out steak strips for jerky !
I've also used the 100 and 85gr Ballistic Tips in the .257Roberts, and even then, they're too frangible for close range. I however did take a 185lb Mule deer doe in Montana at 378yds with the 85gr ballistic tip, and it broke the deers spine at the base of the neck, and exited.... So, if you're shooting at extended ranges, the Ballistic Tips are perhaps "ok"...
If you reload, you can easily reform 7mmRemington Magnum brass to .257wbymag. I find it easier to form the brass if I resize the once-fired-brass in a 7mmMag sizer die before running it through the .257mag sizer die. This keeps from having a stuck case. I then lightly trim the cases just to square up the neck, and lightly chamfer the case mouth for easy bullet seating.
For very long range shooting, try the Berger 115gr VLD bullet- strictly a handloading proposition, however. My rifle shoots them well, and they have the highest ballistic coefficient at .550. They are suitable for deer as well, but I'd reserve them for the longer shots.
For short range hunting, the Hornady 117gr Round Nose is exceptionally accurate and will hold together well. It is the second least expensive factory ammo load. For hunting under 300yds, it's not really a handicap, as the 3,300fps starting velocity makes up for the lack of ballistic coefficient.
I sight in the 100gr Hornady 2" high at 100yds, it's zero at 300yds and 6" low at 400yds. The closest thing the point-and-click you'll get in a deer rifle that won't cut your eyebrow with the scope. (My .300RemUltMag shoots a 150gr bullet at the same speed as the .257wbymag with a 100gr, but kicks 3x as much- and draws blood on both ends.......)
For powders, I normally use some surplus WC-860, but I've had excellent accuracy from H4350 with the 100gr Hornady at 3,500fps.
My Weatherby Vanguard in .257wbymag has the 24"bbl that the Remington has, so..... velocities should be very similar. Most of the data in manuals however, are given for 26"bbls on the Weatherby MkV, so, velocities are 50-100fps slower for the shorter barrel.
I hand load, and haven't and don't own any factory brass (hence ammo,too), so I haven't used any of the factory ammo. However, my hand-loads have used the same bullets.
In a factory ammo deer load, if your deer are under 250lbs typically, I'd recommend the Weatherby factory load with the 100gr Hornady bullet. I shot a doe at ~90yds with one, at a chrono'd mv of 3,550fps. The bullet broke ribs going in and out, but the bullet was balled up under the skin on the far side. Expanded weight was 67.5gr. At greater distances, penetration will be better, and should exit. The largest deer I've ever taken (antler-wise) was a middle Georgia Whitetail 10pt that field dressed 202lbs. I took it in 1983 with a .257Roberts with a mv of 3,000fps with the same bullet. It broke both shoulders, and spine and exited. In fact, the doe described above was the only deer to ever stop one of these bullets. This, and the fact that it's the least expensive factory load for the .257wbymag (BassPro sells them for $38.00, or did the last time I went in one.)
The 117gr Hornady BTSP is excellent, and could be used on elk, but if after elk specifically, I'd use a larger diameter bullet/gun.
Also I've had good performance from the 117gr and 120gr Sierra's, and 120gr Nosler partition. However, I DO NOT RECOMMEND the Nosler 100 or 115gr Ballistic Tips for big game or edible game of any size. They are too frangible for use on big game at the velocities of this cartridge. I had a 115gr Ballistic Tip explode and fragment on a doe. I lost the deer as it got up and ran off after being knocked down and I never got a chance for another shot. I did however find strips of meat laying on the ground, on bushes and a over hanging limb above the deer. Looked like someone was drying out steak strips for jerky !
I've also used the 100 and 85gr Ballistic Tips in the .257Roberts, and even then, they're too frangible for close range. I however did take a 185lb Mule deer doe in Montana at 378yds with the 85gr ballistic tip, and it broke the deers spine at the base of the neck, and exited.... So, if you're shooting at extended ranges, the Ballistic Tips are perhaps "ok"...
If you reload, you can easily reform 7mmRemington Magnum brass to .257wbymag. I find it easier to form the brass if I resize the once-fired-brass in a 7mmMag sizer die before running it through the .257mag sizer die. This keeps from having a stuck case. I then lightly trim the cases just to square up the neck, and lightly chamfer the case mouth for easy bullet seating.
For very long range shooting, try the Berger 115gr VLD bullet- strictly a handloading proposition, however. My rifle shoots them well, and they have the highest ballistic coefficient at .550. They are suitable for deer as well, but I'd reserve them for the longer shots.
For short range hunting, the Hornady 117gr Round Nose is exceptionally accurate and will hold together well. It is the second least expensive factory ammo load. For hunting under 300yds, it's not really a handicap, as the 3,300fps starting velocity makes up for the lack of ballistic coefficient.
I sight in the 100gr Hornady 2" high at 100yds, it's zero at 300yds and 6" low at 400yds. The closest thing the point-and-click you'll get in a deer rifle that won't cut your eyebrow with the scope. (My .300RemUltMag shoots a 150gr bullet at the same speed as the .257wbymag with a 100gr, but kicks 3x as much- and draws blood on both ends.......)
For powders, I normally use some surplus WC-860, but I've had excellent accuracy from H4350 with the 100gr Hornady at 3,500fps.
257WM_CDL-SF
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That was my question I was wondering if the Remington would have the freebore like the Weatherby.I have a box of 100 grain Hornadys and a box of 110 accubonds I'm thinking of using the 100's for target and the 110's for deer.Next year i want to get a reloading kit and thinking of the 115 grain partitions
Uncle Mike
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Remingtons throats are NOT as long as the Roy Toys. And you won't notice any difference in performance, given all things equal.
Hornady 117gr SST... a darn good bullet for that beast.
rangerruck
Member
wow, the 257 weatherby... I consider the round the ultimate lightning strike.
Still to this day, if you get a petersons mag, or other, that has a full ballistics chart in the back, on cartridges, you will see the 257 drops less at 500 yds, than any other bullet made. with a 100 yds zero, has about a 32 inch or less drop, depending on bullet used.
I would go with something softpoint, or maybe a a barnes x bullet. I like the idea of the nosler partition as well...
Still to this day, if you get a petersons mag, or other, that has a full ballistics chart in the back, on cartridges, you will see the 257 drops less at 500 yds, than any other bullet made. with a 100 yds zero, has about a 32 inch or less drop, depending on bullet used.
I would go with something softpoint, or maybe a a barnes x bullet. I like the idea of the nosler partition as well...
Arkel23
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Remington doesn't frrebore, so it will be a little difference, not something someone would just notice.
GooseGestapo
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FWIW, the throat on my Weatherby isn't all that long either.....
Maybe you should measure YOUR rifle, before posting misinformation.......
Remington adheres to SAAMI specs just as Weatherby does for those items it chambers....
For ammo to be compatible, you MUST conform. Remington, to my knowledge dosen't load any Weatherby ammo, at least that I've seen.
So, if you fire off a Norma loaded Weatherby round that with a Weatherby throat produces over 60,000psi, what do you think you'll see from a "short throat" such as that on a .300winmag ???? I smell lawsuit.......!
FWIW; also, my .300RemUltMag Savage M110 has a rather long throat too....., so long in fact that a 150gr Bullet can't be seated to touch the lands. In fact, for best accuracy, I seat the 165's and 180's as long as the action will allow for feeding, which is 3.645", or .045" longer than the SAAMI max OAL of 3.600".
Just because Remington chambers it's .308's, 7mm08's and .22-250's with SAAMI minimum throats, dosen't mean that they are SHORTER than SAAMI minimum. (btw, I have such in a Rem.Mod7 in 7mm08, and a M700 in .22-250)
Remember, you have to compare oranges with oranges, or you just might end up with Lemons and Onions........... (a long story about a tiss my wife had with a Resturant manager one time. Something to do with cutting the lemons for the tea with the same knife used to slice onions without cleaning the knife !)
Hmmm?! Reckon Remington/Savage know a thing about controlling pressures too ?
(Sorry .257 CDL SF; that rant wasn't intended toward you..... just those that PRESUME what they in fact can't know for sure because their brother-in-laws uncle said so, once......)
Maybe you should measure YOUR rifle, before posting misinformation.......
Remington adheres to SAAMI specs just as Weatherby does for those items it chambers....
For ammo to be compatible, you MUST conform. Remington, to my knowledge dosen't load any Weatherby ammo, at least that I've seen.
So, if you fire off a Norma loaded Weatherby round that with a Weatherby throat produces over 60,000psi, what do you think you'll see from a "short throat" such as that on a .300winmag ???? I smell lawsuit.......!
FWIW; also, my .300RemUltMag Savage M110 has a rather long throat too....., so long in fact that a 150gr Bullet can't be seated to touch the lands. In fact, for best accuracy, I seat the 165's and 180's as long as the action will allow for feeding, which is 3.645", or .045" longer than the SAAMI max OAL of 3.600".
Just because Remington chambers it's .308's, 7mm08's and .22-250's with SAAMI minimum throats, dosen't mean that they are SHORTER than SAAMI minimum. (btw, I have such in a Rem.Mod7 in 7mm08, and a M700 in .22-250)
Remember, you have to compare oranges with oranges, or you just might end up with Lemons and Onions........... (a long story about a tiss my wife had with a Resturant manager one time. Something to do with cutting the lemons for the tea with the same knife used to slice onions without cleaning the knife !)
Hmmm?! Reckon Remington/Savage know a thing about controlling pressures too ?
(Sorry .257 CDL SF; that rant wasn't intended toward you..... just those that PRESUME what they in fact can't know for sure because their brother-in-laws uncle said so, once......)
Last edited:
elktrout
Member
GooseGestapo is right about shooting Norma loaded Weatherby loads in a non-Weatherby rifle.
The loading manuals typically warn the reloader to reduce the loads listed if used in a non-Weatherby rifle because of the differences in free bore. It therefore behooves you to check the amount of free bore before using Norma (Weatherby) factory loads.
My Mark V 7mm Wby has so much free bore that, like Goose said, I cannot get the bullets to touch the rifling. I load them long enough to barely fit in the magazine. I would never shoot my loads in a Rem 700 Classic 7mm Wby without verifying that it had at least the same amount of free bore as my Mark V.
The loading manuals typically warn the reloader to reduce the loads listed if used in a non-Weatherby rifle because of the differences in free bore. It therefore behooves you to check the amount of free bore before using Norma (Weatherby) factory loads.
My Mark V 7mm Wby has so much free bore that, like Goose said, I cannot get the bullets to touch the rifling. I load them long enough to barely fit in the magazine. I would never shoot my loads in a Rem 700 Classic 7mm Wby without verifying that it had at least the same amount of free bore as my Mark V.
dubbleA
Member
You might want to ask your brother in law's uncle where he read that the Remington 700 CDL SF has a 24 inch barrel.
carry on
257WM_CDL-SF
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I can look down the barrel,It looks like there might be 1/4 inch of freebore before rifling starts that just looking by eye,But my CDL SF has a 26 inch barrel
Uncle Mike
Member
...and while your asking, ask him why my 4 weatherby rifles, the 4 that are in std calibers do indeed have longer leade/throat than say... the Remingtons or the customs or the Winchesters or the Savages of the same said caliber that reside in ye old safe-
Runningman
Member
257WM congratulations on a fine rifle. The 115 grain Nosler Partitions should work well for you.
Let see if I can shed some light on this. Roy Weatherby specified a .750 freebore area in the throat (could also be called a parallel throat) from the 1940s thru around 1972 on his cartridge designs. When Weatherby moved production of the Mark V to Japan in the early 70s he specified a .360 freebore on his cartridge design he also went from a 1 in 12 twist to a 1 in 10 twist on his 257 - 340 WBY rifles in the same time frame.
So those old German Mark Vs has gobs of freebore. But given some of the old reloading data I've seen printed by Weatherby using WWII surplus H4831 back in the late 50s early 60s that .750 freebore used back than was most likely a good idea cause the pressures mush have been way up there.
I can tell you from the reamer prints I have looked in the 90s that .360 freebore is the net figure used on the 257, 270, 7mm, 300, and 340 Weatherbys. And these same specifications were submitted to SAAMI in the early 90s when the Weatherby family finally legitimized many of the WBY cartridges after many decades of being proprietary cartridges.
I have not looked at reamer prints on any of his other rounds so I cannot comment on them. Production rifles from Weatherby, Sako, Howa, Remington, Ruger, and Winchester all used the same net figure of .360 on the 257 thru 340 WBY for freebore length + throat angle.
Let see if I can shed some light on this. Roy Weatherby specified a .750 freebore area in the throat (could also be called a parallel throat) from the 1940s thru around 1972 on his cartridge designs. When Weatherby moved production of the Mark V to Japan in the early 70s he specified a .360 freebore on his cartridge design he also went from a 1 in 12 twist to a 1 in 10 twist on his 257 - 340 WBY rifles in the same time frame.
So those old German Mark Vs has gobs of freebore. But given some of the old reloading data I've seen printed by Weatherby using WWII surplus H4831 back in the late 50s early 60s that .750 freebore used back than was most likely a good idea cause the pressures mush have been way up there.
I can tell you from the reamer prints I have looked in the 90s that .360 freebore is the net figure used on the 257, 270, 7mm, 300, and 340 Weatherbys. And these same specifications were submitted to SAAMI in the early 90s when the Weatherby family finally legitimized many of the WBY cartridges after many decades of being proprietary cartridges.
I have not looked at reamer prints on any of his other rounds so I cannot comment on them. Production rifles from Weatherby, Sako, Howa, Remington, Ruger, and Winchester all used the same net figure of .360 on the 257 thru 340 WBY for freebore length + throat angle.
257WM_CDL-SF
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how tough a bullet do I really need for the 257 Weatherby for deer
I have a new Remington .257 Weatherby SPS. The barel on mine is 26'. Are some of the other models 24"? GooseGestapo may know something we do not because the Remington catalog does not even list the SS SPS as being chambered in .257 Weatherby. But I can prove they exist.
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257WM_CDL-SF
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I shoot some of the 100 grain spire points at about 50 yds the seemed pretty explosive not sure id want to shoot a deer with them at 50 yds
GooseGestapo
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Thankyou Runningman;
Exactly what I was saying without getting as technical.
.257CDL-SF; exactly what I was saying! It'll drop deer exceptionally well, and will penetrate better than you'd think. However, I did state that for the shorter ranges that the 117-120's would be better.
Hope you enjoy your .257 as much as I enjoy mine.
Just avoid the non-bonded plastic tipped bullets in this cartridge. (InterBonds and Accubonds could/should be "ok".)
Exactly what I was saying without getting as technical.
.257CDL-SF; exactly what I was saying! It'll drop deer exceptionally well, and will penetrate better than you'd think. However, I did state that for the shorter ranges that the 117-120's would be better.
Hope you enjoy your .257 as much as I enjoy mine.
Just avoid the non-bonded plastic tipped bullets in this cartridge. (InterBonds and Accubonds could/should be "ok".)
257WM_CDL-SF
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Thank you Goose. what type of 257 do you have
BMF500
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Congrats on your rifle 257WM. I've been sold on WBY cartirdges since I aquired my .300WBY. A good friend has .257WBY Vanguard and I do belive I need one to. Now I've shot the Vanguard but not a Remmington in .257. Has anyone here shot both? I would suspect that is comes down to one's own preferance, but any insight on the pros/cons between the two?
257WM_CDL-SF
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has anyone used any of the Barnes TSX bullets if so how did they work
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