Removing side plate?

[Taffnevy]

I need some suggestions here.

I was replacing the grips on my SW 17, and like a fool loosened the tension screw on the main spring. Before I knew it the main spring fell right onto the table. Is there any way to get it back in there without removing the side plate?

 

[Taffnevy]

Any one have an idea?

 

[Racinbob]

I suppose it's possible but I've never tried. It seems that it might be tough to get it hooked to the little 'stirrup'. Pulling the sideplate isn't difficult. BE SURE IT'S UNLOADED. I use a wood hammer handle to tap the frame until it comes off. It doesn't take a lot. Hold it over something soft in case it drops. DO NOT PRY IT. Make sure the hammer block is in position when yor put the plate back on.

 

[Walkalong]

Do like Racinbob said, and it will pop right off. As bob posted, DO NOT PRY it up, or you will damage it. Just tap the frame until it pops off.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Be sure to tap the FRAME not the sideplate itself.

 

[Landpimp]

follow the above advice

but somehow I once managed to get the mainspring back in without taking off the sideplate....why I tried I dunno, but it worked(and no I cant tell you how, I dont have a clue)

 

[jad0110]

Yep, tap the grip frame with the wood handle of a hammer. It may require several sharp wraps with the wood handle; don't worry, the wood handle won't harm the grip frame.

The only thing I will add is that if you don't have a set of gunsmithing screwdrivers to do this, you may want to pick up a basic set. Gunsmith screwdrivers have parrellel sides at the tip, so you can always grind down both sides of a standard screwdriver to get the same results. If you use a regular screwdriver, it is VERY easy to booger up the screw heads or worse, slip with the screwdriver and scratch the sideplate.

It is possible to reattach the mainspring to the hammer strut without taking off the sideplate, but it will try your patience.

Here is a photo I found online, gives you an idea of what you are trying to line up "blind" if you don't remove the sideplate.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Should be able to do it without removing the side plate if you are smarter then the gun. I've done it. It does take a little fiddling though...

 

[Brian Dale]

If you do end up taking off the side plate, here are my thoughts. I recently (in the past year) did it for the first time with a .38 M&P. Then I did it again with a K-22.

There's no rush. If it seems to take a long time to get the screws out, that's OK. Slow and gentle keeps me from scratching my side plate. I laid the screws out on the bench as I removed them, arranged so that I could easily remember which screw had come from where.

Tappity-tappity-tap on the grip frame worked perfectly. I used the wooden handle of a toothbrush-shaped, brass-bristled brush. Vibration and the weight of the side plate do the work. Again, it took longer than I'd expected for the side plate to wiggle loose. That's OK; it'll come off.

Getting the side plate back into place was fiddly, but not a real problem. Let yourself get into the Zen of reassembly. Pay attention to how the edges fit to the frame. The part of reasembly that took me the most time was placing the hammer block in the right position so that the groove for it in the side plate would fit over it exactly. I figure that if it takes me eight or ten tries and fifteen minutes, but the side plate hasn't been off in fifty years, then I can relax and be precise about it. In the grand scheme of things, I haven't lost any time. I'm just enjoying learning more about my revolvers.

Still, if you can do what you need to do without removing the side plate, then do that. These guys will probably show you how to be, as The Bushmaster writes, "smarter than the gun."

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Brian Dale makes a good point about noting which screw goes where. The forward sideplate screw doubles as a retaining screw for the cylinder crane so be sure it goes back where it came from.

 

[dogrunner]

You CAN get that main spring back without having to pop off the side plate.

Hold the unloaded gun vertically, tip it back and forth till the strirrup strut is clearly visible to you. Attach the spring onto the stirrup ends with the hooked portion of the spring facing backwards and while firmly holding it in engagement apply a sufficient amount of pressure to slide the lower frame portion of the spring into the frame cut. IE: you have to apply a bit of BEND to the spring to get it to go into the frame cut. Tighten up the strain screw and you are done.

That photo of a S&W action posted is of an old and out of production double spring system....Smith has used only SINGLE leaf springs for way, way over 60 years. A coil spring is now used for the trigger return block and the cylinder lock is of a totally different design along with the hammer.

FYI: Should you wish to remove that sideplate then remove all the screws.....DON'T pry the thing whatsoever.......use a non-marring impact device (hammer handle, leather hammer, etc) and sharply strike the very rear SIDE portion of the frame handle.....the plate will pop up and disengage....to replace it, simply fit it carefully into the appropriate location, make sure the nub that rides under the frame is engaged and lightly tap that frame end while applying pressure to the plate...do it that way and you'll neither mar nor bend that part.

 

[Drail]

And when replacing the sideplate make sure the hammer block is slid up on the pin it rides on as far as it will go. Don't force anything. You now have an opportunity to lightly lube your internals.

 

[btg3]

Life's too short. Get a new M-17. I'll even contribute $100 if you'll just box up the old one and send it to me.

 

[Jim K]

That picture is of a Model 1899 or Model 1902; as dogrunner says, that action was changed in 1905 (the early 1905's still used a rebound lever, but the cylinder stop was changed to the type used today).

Sure, it is possible to install the mainspring without removing the side plate; you just have to know what is in there and how to get the spring in by feel. (It is easier with coil spring guns.)

As to sideplate screws, here is the system I use. Cut a piece of corrugated cardboard out of a shipping box. Use a ball pen or a punch to punch 3 or 4 (or however many screws there are) holes in a pattern that looks like the sideplate. As you remove each screw, push it into the corresponding hole in the cardboard. When you reassemble, the screws are already in the right position.

(The same system works even better with guns like the SAA which have more screws. Just sketch the parts on the cardboard.)

P.S. Guys who know the modern S&W, take a look at that action. Look at the tiny plunger in the side of the cylinder stop. That has a microscopic spring behind it and is a horror to work on. The trigger has a small spring running vertically, and a pinned-in lever to work the hand. The rear of the bolt is screwed on with a tiny screw. Also look at the spring that powers the rebound lever and trigger. They don't often break but when they do, making one is a real problem. Believe me, the modern guns are a lot easier to make and to work on.

P.P.S. The parts nomenclature used in that photo is NOT that used by S&W. S&W uses the term "sear" for what they call the fly, "bolt" for what they call the cylinder latch, and "cylinder stop" for what they call the bolt.

Jim

 

[Taffnevy]

Thanks guys, I'm going to give it a shot today. At this point I have to take off the side plate because the little stirrup piece has fallen out now too.

 

[dogrunner]

You got a problem! Likely the stirrup pin broke or the stirrup itself has gone to pieces! No way can that part come free with the plate attached as it rides side to side in the hammer base and even if loose it couldn't detach as the plate & left frame side'd prevent it from coming out.. Likely you'll have to replace it or the pin itself. Strongly suggest you pull up an on line diagram of the S&W action so you are sure of what you're doing.....also, it my post I should have mentioned that you must carefully position the hammer block safety slide carefully when you re attach that sideplate.

Go to Gunparts.com's site.......almost positive they've got the diagram there........good luck with it.

 

[Walkalong]

Your gun will probably look more like this 25-5 that I took apart to clean some time back.

 

[Brian Dale]

Taffnevy, have you recently looked at the photographs at the top of this thread by Sylvan-Forge, for reference? When I had my first one apart, it was helpful to me to go back and glance at it a few times. He describes clearly what those eensy little parts are.

Thanks for the 25-5 thread reference, Walkalong. Good, clear photoraphs.

 

[jad0110]

P.S. Guys who know the modern S&W, take a look at that action. Look at the tiny plunger in the side of the cylinder stop. That has a microscopic spring behind it and is a horror to work on. The trigger has a small spring running vertically, and a pinned-in lever to work the hand. The rear of the bolt is screwed on with a tiny screw. Also look at the spring that powers the rebound lever and trigger. They don't often break but when they do, making one is a real problem. Believe me, the modern guns are a lot easier to make and to work on.

Thank you for the lesson, I was aware of the rebound spring being a different design, but I was not aware of the plunger in the side of the cylinder stop.

P.P.S. The parts nomenclature used in that photo is NOT that used by S&W. S&W uses the term "sear" for what they call the fly, "bolt" for what they call the cylinder latch, and "cylinder stop" for what they call the bolt.

When I found this picture online, I was thinking the same thing.

Yeah, the photo isn't perfect for the OP, but the mainspring engages the strut/stirrup in basically the same manner in his post war, short action M17.

You got a problem! Likely the stirrup pin broke or the stirrup itself has gone to pieces!

I hate to agree, but dogrunner is correct. Though it may cost you some dough, I'd at least consider taking it to a qualified gunsmith, depending on your comfort level. I've never had the pin holding that stirrup fall out, even when removing the hammer assembly.

 

[Glock Holiday]

Good luck in getting everything back together and for God's sake use a high quality screwdriver like a dedicated gunsmith type.
No sense in dicking up a $500 dollar gun with a $2 screwdriver.
Just my 0.02 worth.

 

[Taffnevy]

I think I've decided to let a pro handle this. Might as well get a nice trigger job done at the same time.

Can anyone recommend someone good without a crazy wait?

 

[Jim K]

IIRC, with the new hammers, there is no stirrup pin; the stirrup has a dollhead that fits into the hammer the same way the sear does. Another simplification made possible by MIM.

Jim

 

[Taffnevy]

Jim,

So the stirrup piece that fell out is not held by a pin? Is this something that I can reattach myself if I take off the plate?

This is such a PITA for just loosening the tension screw.......

 

[RDak]

Yes, there is no pin holding the stirrup on the hammer, the stirrup is held in by the mainspring. The stirrup sets into a slot on the left, rear side of the hammer and the mainspring locks it in by "attatching" the mainspring to the stirrup pins. You'll see what I mean once you get the gun apart and look at it. Don't worry, go slow and you'll find this is a very easy assembly procedure.

The stirrup slides into the groove on the hammer only one way properly. Once again, with trial and error you'll see what I mean once you get in there.

It is very easy to take the sideplate off and disassemble the S&W revolver once you do it a couple of times.

No biggie. Just get in there!!

(Btw, in a way I think it is a good thing this happened to you because you'll see how easy it is to disassemble a S&W revolver. It will be a good learning experience IMHO.)

ETA: Here's a good video to watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPYgohVCNM

 

[rogertc1]

Get a gun like this that hinges open. Just kidding it is my Jap Type 26. Neat revolver.