Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

repeated 1911 colt failure

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by BruM, Jan 15, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BruM

    BruM Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    139
    For the third time the slide spring on my Colt Series 80 1911 has either kinked or broken and in the process ruined the plug. Replacing them isn’t a big deal but I wonder if other folks have similar problems every few hundred rounds.
     
  2. farscott

    farscott Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    1,517
    Location:
    Athens, AL, USA
    That is an unusual failure.

    I would like to ask a question. On which part is the open end of the recoil spring, the guide rod or the plug? The open end should be on the plug end, and the closed end should fit over the guide rod.
     
  3. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,372
    Location:
    Elbert County, CO
    That'd be the first thing I checked.

    If the problem continues after correct spring installation is verified, just install a FLGR.
     
  4. Fremmer

    Fremmer Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,284
    I'm not sure about the correct term, so forgive me, but I'll try anyway.

    Is there any reason that the spring might not be centered perfectly straight? Is the plug hole perfectly centered? There's gotta be something causing that spring to bend/kink.
     
  5. Clarence

    Clarence Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    507
    Location:
    KCMO
    A recoil spring should never break. There is obviously something terribly out of spec. What recoil springs are you using?
     
  6. AK103K

    AK103K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    5,774
    Are "all" the parts present? There is a recoil spring guide in the gun, right?
     
  7. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    6,011
    Location:
    outback Kentucky
    Is it the correct guide for that model Commander different than a Government This isn't a normal problem
     
  8. BruM

    BruM Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    139
    Yes there is a 1 ½” ,measured from the face of the spring support, guide rod. At least in the current case the closed end of the spring was at the guide rod end. The kink that tore the open end of the plug was located a bit forward of the guide rod when looking at the expanded disassembled parts. The guide rod is original the spring is normal length and strength AFAIK
     
  9. Oro

    Oro Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,496
    Location:
    WA state
    This is extremely unsual, as already mentioned. Lots of ideas can be thrown out but if you have a camera to take some pics of the muzzle (assembled), then the slide inverted, plug, and broken spring, some people here can probably give you a much better idea than just guessing.

    If you bought the gun used the first step is to replace the spring with a known good new one, 16lbs, from Colt or another major maker. The previous owner could have installed a far-out-spec spring or the wrong type. If you bought the gun new, there's no reason for it and Colt will sort it out.

    A FLGR should definitely fix it, but it should not be happening in the first place and it's worth figuring out why.
     
  10. wally

    wally Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    Messages:
    12,348
    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    No snarky remarks about getting what you pay for? Repost and change Colt to Taurus an see what you get :)

    Very unusual failure. Some photos would help a lot. You aren't putting a full sized spring into a Commander are you?

    --wally.
     
  11. BruM

    BruM Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    139
    As above it is a full sized colt series 80.
    I bought it new in 1985 so no warranty.
    I replaced the last spring failure with one from a local gun store that stocked a lot of colt spares but don’t know the brand, springs aren’t marked.

    The latest spring, when removed, is bent in a 15 degree or so angle when laying on the bench. The plug is torn at the open end. I'll try some pix but there is not much to see beyond what I described.

    How long is the proper spring guide??? Mine is 1 1/2"
     
  12. AK103K

    AK103K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    5,774
    1 1/2" is right for a GM. The plug should also be 1 1/2", and when straight, the spring should be right around 6 1/4" long.

    It almost sounds like the spring is to heavy and hanging up on the open end of the plug, instead of seating inside of it.
     
  13. Whitman31

    Whitman31 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    413
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I had this happen once, found that the radius on the end of the guide rod was not big enough to ensure that the spring wouldn't catch on it. Destroyed the spring. Vendor admitted fault and I fixed the GR. No problems since. Mine wasn't the same gun as the OP, but still a 1911.
     
  14. Beelzy

    Beelzy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2009
    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Cen-Cal
    You are just having bad luck with springs. Get an OEM spring (make sure it's in the bag still), and see what happens.
     
  15. BruM

    BruM Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    139
  16. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    5,416
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Is that a Series 70 style "collet" bushing in the lower left of the first picture? Above the slide and below the barrel.

    Could that be part of your problem?
     
  17. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,372
    Location:
    Elbert County, CO
    You may be onto something there. could that bushing be allowing the plug to cant upward at the rear, thus the guide rod is no longer aligned? Of course, that would require that the plug be undersized or deformed to begin with.....

    I dunno. I've been sitting here playing with my Mk IV series 80 trying to firgure out how that would happen, and something has got to be off with the plug or guide if it is doing this with more than one spring. Unless the ID of the springs is too large in each case. That'd certainly cause the misalignment.

    Get a new spring, new plug, new GR and a normal solid barrel bushing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  18. Oro

    Oro Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,496
    Location:
    WA state
    I don't think so. The length of the plug is longer than the bushing and at no point should the spring be able to contact it during cycling.

    I think the problem was simply there was a burr or defect on the spring cap that caught the spring and kinked it. I'd replace the cap and spring and I doubt you could have any more problems.

    A picture of the forward portion of the slide and spring cap could help see if there were machining errors in alignment. This sometimes happens but is usually only cosmetic. However, two compounding errors in both pieces could possibly cause this. I wonder if this is not the problem as it looks like the spring cap was impacting the guide rod? The tip of the guide rod looks damaged. For example, a photo like this would help ID these areas or issues. Notice how the gun on the right has the spring tunnel slightly off-center to the right (slightly to the left in the picture since the view is head-on). I have also seen similar problems with spring caps. Combine the two, and you could have the tip of the cap impacting the guide rod end, which looks like your problem.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. BruM

    BruM Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    139
    the bushing is original
     
  20. AK103K

    AK103K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    5,774
    Not for Series 80 guns, or at least none Ive seen or owned.
     
  21. BruM

    BruM Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    139
    AK what do you think should be correct??? I dont think the bushing was ever replaced. Is there an online colt approved parts drawing?/
     
  22. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    5,416
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Here is what a Series 80 (actually anything that is not specifically a true Series 70) bushing looks like.

    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=8849/Product/1911_AUTO_BUSHING

    Notice it is solid, it doesn't have "fingers" as what looks like the bushing in your picture.

    Though I'll admit, I'm not completely sure I've identified the bushing in your picture.
     
  23. AK103K

    AK103K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    5,774
    The link JTQ posted is what they should look like. I've only seen the collet type on the Series 70's I've owned.
     
  24. BruM

    BruM Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    139
    yup ive seen those solid bushings on most 1911 however the spring bushing on mine is original to the best I can remember. Anyway as above the bushing is too short, much shorter than the plug, to interfere with the spring and it does provide a repeatable barrel position.
    curiously I cant find any colt drawings of parts of the various models and none of the bushings I find anywhere resemble mine.
     
  25. mesinge2

    mesinge2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,219
    Location:
    Central Florida
    The one on the left is a series 80 and the one on the right is a series 70 bushing.

    1911 Barrel Bushings.jpg
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page