repeated 1911 colt failure

[BruM]

Tuner: I think you are on to something. The pix below show wear on the frame in two places. The face and the inside or throat of the tunnel. It looks as if the spring guide is riding on the inside of the frame tunnel aswell as the face. If I place the guide in the frame it sort of rocks in place while I expect it should be flat on the face of the frame. However if it rocked up then top of the spring guide should be what hits the spring or plug however the original picture shows damage on the bottom of the guide. Is it possible that the guide is too fat to fit into the tunnel properly?
What now?

 

[1911Tuner]

From what I can see, it appears that you've found it The impact abutment is standing proud of the frame rails. As the slide moves, the guide angles upward on the front...getting in the way of the spring. The spring grabs the front of the guide rod, holding it fast in its misaligned state. Then, as the slide impact abutment strikes the guide rod flange, it jams it hard into the portion of the tunnel that the butt-end of the guide rod fits into while it's cocked upward.

I'm surprised that the gun will run at all.

It looks for the world like the frame impact abutment wasn't completely machined. How do these things get past QC? That should have jumped out at somebody like a startled rattlesnake.

 

[BruM]

If I understand correctly the abutment should be on plane with the ends of the frame rails?? It is definitly not and stands proud by what looks like .020" or so.

What I don’t understand is why the damage to the guide is on the bottom not the top as I would expect if it is tipping up.

What Do you recommend??

 

[1911Tuner]

If I understand correctly the abutment should be on plane with the ends of the frame rails??

Correct.

It is definitly not and stands proud by what looks like .020" or so.

Could be the lighting, but it looks like more than that to me.

What I don’t understand is why the damage to the guide is on the bottom not the top as I would expect if it is tipping up.

Odd, I know...but that's the area that takes the hit whether it's a misalignment, sloppy vertical fit, or cattywampus impact abutment.

What Do you recommend??

A gunsmith with a mill and the skill to set up the frame so that he can cut the abutment square and true. Chuck Rogers/Rogers Precision or George Smith/Evolution Gun Works can make it right. Might be a fairly lengthy wait, though. Since it's a defective frame, Colt will probably warranty it...even on an older gun. If it's wrong, it's wrong. IMO, it belongs to Colt. They may have other ideas, though. Worth a call.

Note: This ain't a job for a drill press.

 

[BruM]

Thank you to all who helped solve this puzzle, especially tuner.

PS: I have never been able to shoot this pistol accurately do you think this problem would affect accuracy or just slide function??

 

[1911Tuner]

Shouldn't have any effect on accuracy. The bullet exits when the slide has moved about a 10th of an inch. Sandbag it to see if the gun itself is at fault...after you get the problem corrected, of course.

 

[BruM]

[] always figured it was an operator malfunction.

 

[1911Tuner]

It happens, Bru. Many people have a little trouble managing 1911s...which is where a lot of the myths and legends got started about them being innacurate clunks. Work with it, and focus on sights and trigger. It'll come together for ya.

I ran into an old soldier at the range one find spring day. WW2 vet. He had a '43 Ithaca that he banged a few times and put it up. Said that he just wanted to limber it up a little after being in the mothballs for 20 years...just to make sure it still worked. He remarked: "Those things are junk. Can't hit the side of a barn with one." I asked him if I could try it...and proceeded to mow down two racks of falling plates at 25 yards in fairly quick time. He was a little miffed, to say the least.

FWIW...I've seen a few early Series 80 pistols NIB with the Series 70 collet bushings.
Colt has a penchant for using whatever they have on hand whenever parts run short,
so it's not unheard of.

Also FWIW...The enlarged portion of the barrel near the muzzle is standard. It started with Colt's Series 70 "Accurizer" barrel that was used in conjunction with the collet-type bushing. The enlarged portion is shorter than the original Series 70 design...but it's been a standard modification for years.

And...while we're on Series 70 Colts...a little trivia strictly FYI. There is no such thing as a Series 70 Commander or Combat Commander. Colt never produced one. All Series 70 pistols were 5-inch guns...either Government Model or Gold Cup.

 

[BruM]

So the slides are the same just either an enlarged barrel with a collet or a standard barrel with a standard bushing will fit??

 

[1911Tuner]

Yup. That's it.

 

[BruM]

I plan to ship it to colt tomorrow. We'll see if they do the right thing.

 

[1911Tuner]

Call'em first. Ask for Cindy. She's the easiest to deal with.

 

[BruM]

thanks, []

 

[mesinge2]

Tuner is the best, he gave me advise to get my 3" 1911 running.

After I got it back from the smith I brought it to the range. Then and now, it runs like a top with everything I feed it.

 

[BruM]

Cindy is at the shot show.
I sent pix via email to customer service. They will have somebody look at them and reply.
B

 

[BruM]

Update:
In today’s mail I got a no charge invoice from Colt. Not much detail except:

repair receiver
replace necessary parts
adjust to factory specs
test for function and accuracy

So it seems Colt have repaired my 20 something year old 1911 at no charge. Only took a week to get the invoice from the day they received the gun. A stand up American company, Old Sam'l would be proud.

I'll let folks know what they did when it arrives.

 

[Jolly Rogers]

Good job. I for one would love to see before and after pics of the repair areas.
Joe

 

[mesinge2]

I for one would love to see before and after pics of the repair areas.

+1

I would also

 

[BruM]

pix no problem, dont know how long it will take.

 

[BruM]

As promised here are the results:
Got the gun back from Colt. They milled the frame now the impact abutment area is one plane, they replaced the entire slide, the complete barrel assembly with the standard non tapered type, also replaced sear spring and re-blued everything. It is essentially a new gun, I am impressed. The gun was 20 years old and made prior to their lifetime warranty. Thanks to everybody who contributed to solving this problem, especially to 1911 Tuner who correctly identified the problem before even seeing the gun pictures.

 

[BruM]

 

[1KPerDay]

Wow. That is something. They really took care of you. Good on you, Colt's!


Now for the 64 dollar question: Does it work? Does it still munch recoil springs?

 

[BruM]

havent shot it yet, maybe this week. I wont know on the springs for sure until hundreds of rounds..

 

[mesinge2]

That's some customer service right there, now we need a range report

 

[DevilDog0402]

That's some customer service right there, now we need a range report

Yes, I must say I would be very happy with that level of customer service!