Replicating Buffalo Bore Loads

[crazyjennyblack]

I have an old model Ruger Vaquero that I enjoy shooting handloaded .45 colt through. I've used all sorts of different stuff, but I'm interested in how Buffalo Bore gets their bullets going so fast without exceeding SAAMI spec. In particular, I'm interested in one load billed as ".45 +P" that sends a 300 grain jacketed flat nose bullet at 1325 fps.

First, can an old model Vaquero take this? What powder could I use to replicate this? Where could I get some reliable data? What kind of powder is Buffalo Bore using that makes this stuff so special, or are other manufacturers scared of making ammo this hot?

I'm interested in pushing the best performance out of my Vaquero because it's my chosen sidearm when I go out to a friend's place in the backwoods (she has had mountain lions on her property a couple of times....)

 

[GooseGestapo]

You can load the .45Colt with either H110/Win296, Hod Lil'Gun, or #2400 to approach the load you mentioned.
Yes, you can shoot these loads from the OLD (heavy) Vaquero, but not the newer ones. Though why, I can't imagine.
My favorite "heavy" load for my Ruger RedHawk w/5.5"bbl (read Heavy!), was the Lee 300grFNGC over 20.0gr of #2400. This got ~1,200fps and had all the recoil I really cared to tolerate.
FWIW; for most any practical purpose in the lower 48 states, a 255gr Lead bullet (RFN, or SWC) over 8.2gr of Unique or Universal for ~950fps will do anything you want. Or, if a GasCheck or Jacketed bullet of 250-260gr, 20.0gr of #2400 will exceed the ft/lbs of most .44mag ammo, at somewhat lower pressures. You won't want to shoot a lot of these.... From my Winchester Mod94 "Legacy" (24"bbl and nice wood/checkering) these loads approach the performance of the .45/70.

A 255gr bullet at ~950fps will shoot through two or even 3 Large mountain lions...... The cats don't get much over 150lbs., mostly under 100lbs. A 200gr HP will be better "cat nip" than a heavy cast bullet. In most areas where cats are hunted (western U.S.) they are hunted with a .357mag or .22mag. They aren't particularily hard to kill. Just hit it right.... But they can take the hounds that are used on a Loooong merry chase, so the hunters prefer to carry handguns when chasing the hounds....
I would just find a load that you can shoot poa/poi at ~50ft and call that good. A .45 with "mouse-fart" loads, is still a .45! and nothing to trifle with. Even the most anemic "Cowboy" load will be adequate for your purpose. That, and you'll enjoy shooting it, and will shoot it more, and be a better shot.

The Buffalo Bore loads are speciality loads for those who need them and don't have access to reloading or not inclined to, and are worth the excess cost. A guide in Alaska "needs" them for dealing with 600-900lb Brown Bears. For this, they aren't "excessive". But, a 50rd box will probably last 10yrs and will be expended in practicing. 3-4 shots each spring to make sure ammo is still good and to remember why you don't want to shoot one unless you really, really need to!!!

 

[crazyjennyblack]

I really tend to believe in over-kill
If I had the money, I'd probably go out and buy a .500 Smith and Wesson, just because I can.

Wimpy "cowboy" loads are fine for every day (and I probably have at least 2-3k rounds through my vaquero). Some days it just takes more to keep me entertained

Interested in hearing who else has tried to replicate the Buffalo Bore ammo....

 

[41 Mag]

I have a Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt and have not felt the need to run it that hard. The main reason if I want more I can easily get it from my 454.

To me there are some useful loads that BB produces but only if I were not loading my own would I consider bumping up to that level, and even then I would not run anywhere close to a steady diet of them through my revolvers.

I highly suggest you reading through some of the articles posted here,
Gun Notes by John Linebaugh

You will find, as I did that with the old Colt, there really is no real need to punish yourself nor your revolver with the heavy +p+ loads. I am running the Lee 255gr RF witch come out at 260gr cast from my alloy. I am using one of the exact loads listed there in those articles and it hits right on the money at 100fps which is more than enough for anything I plan on putting it to task on.

 

[Master Blaster]

Get a reloading manual like lyman 49 and pick the highest velocity load they publish, or try Hodgdon data on line. Speer has Ruger FA and thompson contender loads in the back as well.

 

[PapaG]

If you have the lab to test pressure, the top notch chronograph, and a lot of money....you might be able to do it. Going for it with "seat of the pants" loading techniques is a recipe for disaster.

 

[RalphS]

First of all, who says they're not exceeding SAAMI specs? There is no SAAMI spec for 45LC +P. Most ammo loaders take the SAAMI spec for 44Mag and reduce it by 20% for 45LC +P and load somewhere in the range of 25K to 30K PSI.

You won't replicate BuffaloBore using Hodgdons' published data. I've tried in both 45LC and 44M.

The BB 325 grain 45LC +P bullet does an average of 1269 fps out of my 4 inch Redhawk. My handload, using H-110 (not saying how much but more than published max) and a 330 grain Beartooth Bullet (not the exact same bullet but close) does 1237 fps. I could probably go another half grain or so but I'm pretty happy with 1200+ fps out of a 4 inch barrel and a little nervous about pushing it any further.

In 44Mag, BB has a 305 grain LBT bullet at 1331 fps out of a 5.5 inch Redhawk. I get 1389 fps with a 300 grain Beartooth Bullet out of my 5.5 inch Redhawk, so in this case, I get better ballistics. There's no published data for this bullet on the Hodgdon website.

BB uses Rimrock bullets. I like Beartooth bullets and Cast Performance bullets better. If you really want to compare apples to apples, you need to use the same bullets.

I like H-110. I doubt that they are using H-110, especially for their really hot loads. I suspect they are using a proprietary powder or some brand which we cannot buy as reloaders. As far as I know, nobody knows what powder they are using.

 

[zxcvbob]

My favorite load for a Ruger Bisley is only about 20000 psi, and *might* even be safe in a New Vaquero (but I wouldn't try it.) A 230 grain hard lead bullet with 7.5 grains of Promo powder, for about 1100 fps. I can shoot these all day. You can get the same performance at lower pressure using Universal, Bullseye, or Unique (etc), but I have lots of Promo

I also shoot 25000+ psi loads using 255 grain bullets and slower powders, like Herco and Blue Dot. 1300 to 1350 fps. (I'm not gonna give the load data here) Those are only fun to shoot for maybe one or two cylinders. If I shoot too many I start flinching and it takes a long time for the flinch to go away.

 

[RalphS]

For mountain lions, you don't need +P loads.

 

[hang fire]

Yes, you can shoot these loads from the OLD (heavy) Vaquero, but not the newer ones. Though why, I can't imagine.

Compare the old and new Vaquero cylinders and frames, the difference can be seen immediately. The New models are much smaller and weaker.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree those Buffalo Bore loads are probably not within SAAMI limits. You can't get something for nothing so you can't achieve those high velocities without pressure.

From what I read BB is using none canister powders like all other bullet manufacturers do. They mix them and test the pressures, something we can't do. Since we can't safely mix powders we can't do what they do.

I am not a big fan of BB ammo. I feel they are too expansive. I'm sure you have heard this before, if you want to push heavy bullets that hard use a 44 Mag or 454 Casull instead of a .45 Colt. (although I know it's fun to try! LOL)

 

[Black_Talon]

I am not a big fan of BB ammo.

Are you referring specifically to their 45 Colt loads, or is this applicable to their 38 Spl, 357 Mag and 44 Spl loads as well?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

All of their ammo in general.

I have nothing against them personally. I'm sure they are good people, I just don't buy into their story...

 

[71Commander]

I do believe that BB use a blended powder. A little bit of this and a little bit of that. Kinda like power pistol and titegroup blend.

I wouldn't advise it.

 

[Master Blaster]

If you get the speer manual there is a section in there titled "Why Ballisticians get Headaches". It has a comparison chart that shows velocities generated in different revolvers using the same loads. The velocities from 3 different revolvers even with the same barrel length and load can vary by 300 fps. That also means the pressure is varying as well.

The thing that scares me about Buffalo bore, is that every gun is different, and they don't have YOUR gun to test. So while the pressure may be at the top of SAAMI spec (if there is one) in their gun or test barrel, it could be WAY over the top in YOUR gun. No way to know that. My fear is that their magical loads could turn your gun into a grenade.

JMHO YMMV

 

[Hondo 60]

My guess is, Buffalo Bore uses a blended powder that the average reloader either can't get, or they use a a mixture of available powders.

In either event, I'd prefer not to subject my guns to that kind of pounding.
IMHO it really is over-kill.

 

[blarby]

The obvious course to ascertain the contents of buffalo bore rounds would be to take a few down to examine the contents.

Granted, this isn't exactly reverse engineering for the benchloader...... but I seriously doubt you could formulate within SAAMI specs using a single powder, based on the available reloading data.