Reputation of Spanish made CETMEs 7'62?

[Nordeste]

Hi all. First of all, I'm not a regular rifle shooter. I like it when I get to shoot them but I'm more of a pistol guy. I have, though, a question for you rifle experts out there.

At work we still have some of these old CETME 7'62x51 NATO rifles. I have some affection to these rifles since the first thing I shot in my life was one of them, nearly some 20 years ago in the Academy. The ones we have are mainly used for deployment of riot control stuff at fairly long distances (and they do that very well) or to provide, should the need came, support fire from a safe distance if the need for penetration power should come. As said, they are seldom used. We usually prefer the MP5, 12-gauge Franchis, or HK G36 when a long gun is needed.

I'm happy, however, than they are still there. Most of them are no less than 25 years old, and I still have to come across a unit that didn't shoot flawlessly. In fact, I am more accurate with the old CETME C, than I am with its successor, the crappy CETME LC in 5'56, and I even like it more than the HK G36... though I feel this is just me and my personal affection for this rifle. The G36 is a very fine piece, IMHO.

I read about issues in CETMEs built by some company called Century Arms. I wasn't aware the CETME was ever built outside Spain but it looks like it did. I can tell you that, over here, the old CETME C, the original one built here, had a reputation for being an extremely rugged, reliable, and accurate rifle.

I wonder if any of you have put your hands on a Spanish-built unit, if you own one, or have shot one, and how they'd compare to those Century Arms rifles.

 

[gunnysmith]

I bought the Century Cetmes for less than $200.00 a piece.
I knew there were problems with their builds.
I ordered the necessary parts from one of your countrymen and brought them back to spec. New bolt heads, sum + rollers etc.
They are all in good working order now for less than $50.00 in parts each.

 

[GCBurner]

Century Arms put together their own CETME rifles with their own semi-auto receivers to get around US import restrictions on military type "assault rifles". The Spanish-made guns are as good a quality as the H&K G3 rifles they are based on, I think. The only drawback with them for civilian use here is the fact that they require a fluted chamber for proper extraction with their roller locking mechanism, which means they require cases of a specific hardness to work reliably, and the brass can't be reloaded due to the creasing, so military surplus ammo is pretty much a requirement. That's not a problem for you in Spain, where you can get the rifle and ammo from the armory. I tried out a CETME from Century, but wound up going with a M14/M1A instead as a 7.62mm NATO calibre rifle; I just like the way it handles better, for me, and I can reload for it.

 

[Slamfire]

I wonder if any of you have put your hands on a Spanish-built unit, if you own one, or have shot one, and how they'd compare to those Century Arms rifles.

An all original Spanish CEMTE would be very rare. It would probably be considered as a fully automatic weapon, and there are laws on the books since the 30's about those, and then current import restrictions force importers to build rifles up from piece parts.

I think the real problem is Century Arms and their poor quality control and ill trained workforce.

I saw the assembly area at Federal Ordnance, their parts, and their work areas, and a preschool was better organized and managed. The work force had a don't give a hoot attitude. I assume Century Arms is the same way.

Government contractors building new rifles are much more professional and have contractual obligations to meet, and their customer is the 800 lb Gorilla.

A Government lawsuit is backed by the full cash flow of a Nation, no contractor has the resources to fight long term when they are in the wrong.

Little people (us) we can complain on the web, but we don't have the deep pockets to sue and get a cash judgement.

"Justice is only a question between equals of power, the strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides

 

[RCArms.com]

Century CETME Rifles

I think the misconception is that Century builds rifles.

Century distributes rifles. The CAI "Built" rifles are all farmed out to various firms and there some that do a first rate job while others are sloppy careless builds.

As for the CETMES, I've had a couple in my collection that were outstanding and probably 15 or so that passed through that I would classify as really really sloppy.

Your experience with CAI rifles will vary depending on who assembled it for CAI.

Don

 

[armoredman]

There was a handful of semi-auto CETME Sporters imported directly from Spain in the 60s, and I would love to have one. I had the Century 'rework", and it was horrible.

 

[RCArms.com]

There was a handful of semi-auto CETME Sporters imported directly from Spain in the 60s, and I would love to have one. I had the Century 'rework", and it was horrible.

Those MARS imports were incredible, but insanely expensive today.

 

[Shear_stress]

Those MARS imports were incredible, but insanely expensive today.

Absolutely. Mars Equipment Incorporated of Chicago imported original Spanish CETMEs back in the 1960s, at a time when they were available through mail order. Very few were brought in. This type of rifle didn't sell particularly well at the time and the price of $219.95 in 1968 dollars (equal to more than $1300 in 2010 dollars) probably didn't help either.

The Mars imports represent most, if not all, of the genuine CETMEs in the United States. They do pop up occasionally, but for a king's ransom. True Spanish CETMEs are superb rifles.

 

[armoredman]

Kings ransom, eh...*looks around for a spare king floating nearby*

 

[seasmoke]

An example...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=278515538

 

[armoredman]

Unfired...what a crime. And who'da thunk it, an military style rifle marked Chicago, IL?

 

[W.E.G.]

I sold mine.



It was a reliable shooter for the hundred-or-so rounds I put through it.
But, I didn't like what Century did to the muzzle.
There was a dark spot in the bore opposite where Century drilled for the blind pin.
I'm pretty sure that did not bode well for the future accuracy - or even the integrity - of that barrel.

 

[W.E.G.]

Something too about the cocking handle.

It would raise an evil burr on the cocking tube slot.

Then you'd go to work the cocking handle - and it was stiff - that burr would slice an impressive gash into the side of your hand.

I had fun playing with that rifle.

I don't miss it.

I still have one that has the ugly aluminum FAC "skateboard-tape" receiver.

 

[MRH]

The Century Arms CETME I have has the sights welded on crooked. I mounted a scope and have had no problems. It is totally reliable and quite accurate.

Funny that you can't reload the brass. I've been reloading for my CETME for years and get fairly long brass life, since I use a starting load (so I don't have to chase the brass as far). The fluted chamber does leave a lot of marks on the brass, but it does not affect reloading!

 

[baylorattorney]

I can tell you this about my CETME, it is one tough stupid proof rifle and accurate. I was talked into buying it one day by my gun dealer. Knew little about it, but it was cheap back then, like $300 new. I bought a thousand rounds of south African in battle packs and went to play. Half way through and I liked it, I had a Polaris 6 wheeler with gun rack on the front, holding my CETME, when I went to start the machine it took off and crashed into a carport 1 inch pipe breaking the plastic guard on the Polaris in half and bending my new rifle in the center pretty good. I was upset, the bolt wouldnt work. I hammered and heated and hammered on it for a day and a half and got it working again, not as pretty as new, but as effective. One tough rifle.

 

[RCArms.com]

I can tell you this about my CETME, it is one tough stupid proof rifle and accurate. I was talked into buying it one day by my gun dealer. Knew little about it, but it was cheap back then, like $300 new. I bought a thousand rounds of south African in battle packs and went to play. Half way through and I liked it, I had a Polaris 6 wheeler with gun rack on the front, holding my CETME, when I went to start the machine it took off and crashed into a carport 1 inch pipe breaking the plastic guard on the Polaris in half and bending my new rifle in the center pretty good. I was upset, the bolt wouldnt work. I hammered and heated and hammered on it for a day and a half and got it working again, not as pretty as new, but as effective. One tough rifle.

Not sure if I'd be comfortable running live 7.62x51mm through a rifle that has been bent enough at the trunnion to disable the rifle, and then have it fixed by heat and impact stress. But hey, that's just me.

 

[baylorattorney]

Not sure if I'd be comfortable running live 7.62x51mm through a rifle that has been bent enough at the trunnion to disable the rifle, and then have it fixed by heat and impact stress. But hey, that's just me.

Put that way, me neither, but I did for at least three thousand rounds.

 

[Nordeste]

Was that a Spanish made CETME, Baylorattorney?.

I think that what I've read somehow confirms the reputation they got here. BTW, as far as I know, and if I'm not mistaken, it was the G3 the one that was a CETME derivative and not the other way around. There was some German guy leading the development team, though.

Thanks for your inputs, gents

 

[armoredman]

Yes, Nordeste, the first G3s had CETME stamped on them for that reason.

 

[Ignition Override]

The countless number of reports I read on the Internet, about serious problems with CETMEs which were built by Century, convinced me to never buy any semi-auto gun with the Century name.

Century also sold many AK-74s with barrels having 5.56 bores (bad "keyholes"), but AK-74s are supposed to shoot 5.45x39 ammo.

 

[TOU]

If it is a true Spanish CETME...I wouldn't hesitate for a second. I would even pay 2-3X over a Century rework. JMHO

 

[Lloyd Smale]

i owned 3 differnt century cetmes in the past. All three were reliable, had proper headspace and were accurate. Maybe i just got lucky.