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Request from handgunlaw.us: look at open carry info?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Derek Zeanah, Feb 27, 2013.

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  1. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    Apparently lots of folks are contacting handgunlaw.us about open carry rules in their states, so the handgunlaw folks are trying to compile this information. Accurately.

    If you're knowledgeable about the rules in your state, can you please download the attached PDF and look it over? It's 19 pages right now, but it's easy to find each state and it reads well.

    The goal isn't to compile a PDF; rather they're looking for a quick fact-check before the information is published on the web.

    Thanks, folks.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  2. Sergei Mosin

    Sergei Mosin Member

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    Nebraska looks accurate to me.
     
  3. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    Arizona's is accurate with one exception.

    "When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying gets their attention."

    ETA: I've only open carried a couple times, and have around police officers. Never gotten as much as a second look. And anyway, this must be entirely speculation, as written, and doesn't make much sense considering we're a Constitutional Carry state. Being such, simply openly carrying a gun anywhere lawful doesn't even create reasonable suspicion of a crime, which is necessary for a lawful stop.

    Because of those points, I wouldn't include that statement.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  4. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Member

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    Law and reality are not the same when it comes to OC. In many cities the police simply make up their own interpretations of what they will allow, regardless of the actual law.

    In Seattle for example, everyone knows OC is 100% legal. If you actually try it, the police will detain you, harass and threaten you. Even though the Police, city and state attorney's have repeatedly written that state law is clear; it is legal. They don't care.

    Respect for the law is a 2 way street.
     
  5. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Bobson, That is the same wording I used for every state. But you are correct. AZ and AK both would not think twice about seeing someone open carrying. WY is most likely getting to be the same way with their Constitutional Carry law now in effect for over a year and a half. I will remove it from both AK and AZ. Thank you for the input. That is exactly what I am looking for.
     
  6. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    Hey, you're welcome man. Thank you for all that you do to help people understand the law.
     
  7. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Washington needs some work:

    "Open Carry is legal but you must have a valid permit/license to carry in any vehicle in Washington."

    You must have a valid permit/license to possess a loaded handgun in any vehicle in Washington. RCW 9.41.050

    "This includes Cars, Ferries, Buses and Trains."

    A Washington State Ferry in Washington State is not considered a vehicle. It is considered part of the highway system that carries vehicles. The CPL requirement applies to your personal vehicle on the ferry, but does not apply once you exit your vehicle on the ferry. For example, RCW 47.17.080:
    RCW 47.17.080
    State route No. 20.

    A state highway to be known as state route number 20 is established as follows:

    Beginning at a junction with state route number 101 in the vicinity of Discovery Bay, thence northeasterly via the most feasible route to Port Townsend; also

    From the state ferry terminal at Port Townsend via the state ferry system northeasterly to the state ferry terminal at Keystone; also

    From the Keystone ferry dock on Whidbey Island, thence northeasterly by the most feasible route by way of Deception Pass, Burlington, Sedro Woolley, Concrete, Newhalem, Winthrop, Twisp, Okanogan, Tonasket, Republic, Kettle Falls, Colville, and Tiger; thence southerly and southeasterly to a junction with state route number 2 at Newport.


    "Washington State allows those with a CPL to carry in places that those who Open Carry are not allowed to Carry."

    Absolutely false. There are places in Washington State where only those who possess a CPL are allowed to carry, openly or concealed. City owned stadiums and convention centers and school premises for example. RCW 9.41.300:
    RCW 9.41.300
    Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:
    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060;


    Notice, no mention of open or concealed carry. And RCW 9.41.280:
    RCW 9.41.280
    Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (a) Any firearm;

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
    (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070


    Again, no mention of open or concealed carry.

    "When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying firearm gets their attention."

    This is more of an opinion, rather than a fact. In most communities the police are very aware that open carry is legal and will not hassle a person only for open carrying.

    "Michigan has very active RKBA Orgs which have a lot of information."

    Not applicable to Washington State.
     
  8. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    The Loaded Firearms in a vehicle without a valid permit/license is covered in the RV/Car Carry Section which I list for those to read on carrying in vehicles.

    The part ""Washington State allows those with a CPL to carry in places that those who Open Carry are not allowed to Carry." Is correct as I was aiming at those open carrying without a permit/license. I have tried to come up with a header for the section other than "Open Carry"

    I have thought about "Open Carry Without a Valid Permit/License" and may change it to that. That was my purpose as that is the question I get ask the most. "Can I Open Carry without a permit/license. Again that is why I am asking for feedback.

    Yes open carrying may get the attention of Police Officers is an opinion but I put that in there to make sure they are aware of that. Every officer doesn't know the law even in the states that many open carry. Liked the part about the ferry being a road. I would have never seen that little nugget without your assistance.

    So here is what I have for Washington Now. Your feedback on that would be very much appreciated. Also for the Michigan entry I list the two biggest Orgs to check with as they have a ton of info on them for Michigan. In MI those who open carry can carry in more places than those with a Permit/License can.

    WASHINGTON (UPDATE)

    Open Carry is legal but you must have a valid permit/license to carry in any vehicle in Washington. This includes Cars, Buses and Trains. Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above apply to those who open carry. All School Property and Facilities used for school functions are off limits to those without a valid permit/license. Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances restricting the carrying of firearms without a valid permit/license in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality. When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying firearm gets their attention. See the “RV/Car Carry Without a Permit” section for more information on carrying in a vehicle.

    The state preempts all firearm laws in the state and local authorities can’t have Laws/Ordinances against open carry except they can restrict certain places for those without a permit/license. It is up to you to know those local ordinances. Remember that if you enter any property and the owner/responsible person ask you to leave you must leave. Failure to leave can result in Trespass Charges. The Minimum age for Open Carry is 21.

    This is not the last word on Open Carry in this state. Check at www.opencarry.org or go to Google and type in State Name Open Carry or Open Carry State Name for a search for open carry info in this state. Check with this State's RKBA Organization/s. Michigan has very active RKBA Orgs which have a lot of information. Also see “Attorney General Opinions/Court Cases” Section for any written opinions/Cases on Open Carry.

    Again Feedback on being factual and wording is much appreciated.
     
  9. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    The only thing I might suggest changing would be: you must have a valid permit/license to carry a loaded handgun in any vehicle in Washington.

    The reason is that people who open carry without a license tend to carry the handgun outside the vehicle with a loaded magazine inserted in the gun but no round chambered (considered loaded by Washington law, even though not really in reality). When they enter the vehicle they just release the magazine and remove it from the gun. When they exit the vehicle, they just insert the magazine into the gun. That way, usually, they do not have to remove the gun from the holster.

    It is not prohibited to open carry an unloaded handgun in a vehicle without a CPL - it just cannot be concealed on the person.
     
  10. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    That makes perfect sense if you have to get in and out. I am not a fan of carrying empty chamber but then sometimes you have to do what you have to do to stay within the law. New sentence added to first paragraph. Didn't need to post other paragraphs as there were no changes. Thank you for your assistance. That is the reason I posted this is to get feedback like this. What I really liked is you posted the Code which made it very simple and quick to confirm. Much Appreciated.

    Open Carry is legal but you must have a valid permit/license to carry a loaded handgun in any vehicle in Washington. This includes Cars, Buses and Trains. You can keep the firearm holstered with empty chamber on your hip in your vehicle (can’t be concealed) but the loaded mag must be removed. Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above apply to those who open carry. All School Property and Facilities used for school functions are off limits to those without a valid permit/license. Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances restricting the carrying of firearms without a valid permit/license in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality. When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying firearm gets their attention. See the “RV/Car Carry Without a Permit” section for more information on carrying in a vehicle.
     
  11. LevelHead

    LevelHead Member

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    New Jersey is NOT a shall issue state.
     
  12. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Blew that one didn't I. Again that is why I am looking for feedback to fix errors like that one I made. Thank you. Now I have to look at those other ones to make sure I didn't do that on another one.
     
  13. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Had it wrong for Mass and Maryland also. That was a paragraph I used for many states and missed changing the Shall to May. Thank you again. Much Appreciated.
     
  14. hermannr

    hermannr Member

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    Hej Gary! Thanks for getting into listing OC for us...

    My I add to what Navy has stated about WA. I Open carried without a license for over 25 years...the only hangup is the loaded carry in a vehicle when you do not meet one of the exceptions.

    There is No license needed for loaded carry in a vehicle, openly, or concealed if you meet an exception in RCW 9.41.060. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060

    RCW 9.41.060 is important because this is the section that will cover the unlicensed person with a motorhome or other method of going camping that is on vacation here. Camping is one of several valid "outdoor recreational activity", and is in exception (8)

    Contrary to what poster "joeschmoe" stated, OC is well accepted in WA, I have OC'd here since 1970, without a license prior to 1996, and have never had a problem or been hasseled...even in Seattle and Spokane.

    If you are on foot, no license is necessary to OC at any time and anywhere not listed in RCW 9.41.300 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

    Also, an 18-21 year old may carry if they are hunting or fishing (with appropreate license) or Other activity as defined in RCW 9.41.060(6), (7), or (8)
     
  15. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    hermannr,

    I made changes with info supplied by NavyLCDR. Below is what I have for WA now. I posted similar above but think I changed a few words. RCW9.41.060 is listed in the RV/Car Carry Section on the WA page at www.handgunlaw.us and my Open Carry listing directs people to read that section also. I don't want to make a page to long so keeping it short and simple. Feedback on what is below would be appreciated.

    WASHINGTON Open Carry

    Open Carry is legal but you must have a valid permit/license to carry a loaded handgun in any vehicle in Washington. This includes Cars, Buses and Trains. You can keep the firearm holstered with empty chamber on your hip in your vehicle (can’t be concealed) but the loaded mag must be removed. Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above apply to those who open carry. All School Property and Facilities used for school functions are off limits to those without a valid permit/license. Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances restricting the carrying of firearms without a valid permit/license in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality. When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying firearm gets their attention. See the “RV/Car Carry Without a Permit” section for more information on carrying in a vehicle.

    The state preempts all firearm laws in the state and local authorities can’t have Laws/Ordinances against open carry except they can restrict certain places for those without a permit/license. It is up to you to know those local ordinances. Remember that if you enter any property and the owner/responsible person ask you to leave you must leave. Failure to leave can result in Trespass Charges. The Minimum age for Open Carry is 21.

    This is not the last word on Open Carry in this state. Check at www.opencarry.org or go to Google and type in State Name Open Carry or Open Carry State Name for a search for open carry info in this state. Check with this State's RKBA Organization/s. Michigan has very active RKBA Orgs which have a lot of information. Also see “Attorney General Opinions/Court Cases” Section for any written opinions/Cases on Open Carry.
     
  16. tyeo098

    tyeo098 Member

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    As for VA:
    These 2 statements contradict each other.

    I have never been hassled even around my neck of the woods by DC in NoVa.
     
  17. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    The first sentence you quoted is in the template for all the state pages. I should remove that for VA. That is the reason I am seeking input. When collecting info things like this slip by and I don't even notice them as I read them so much. Fresh eyes see what mine don't. Thank You.
     
  18. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    tyeo098,

    With your question I went to the VA page and noticed something I put in almost every states page listing last paragraph. I put this in all of them.

    Michigan has very active RKBA Orgs which have a lot of information.

    I figure when I was laying out each states page I copied the MI entry to make up the next state and didn't notice that line in the other states listed below MI. I have removed that. But looking with fresh eyes after about 5 days since I have viewed the file made the difference and I noticed that.

    Attached is the newest copy of what I have for each state.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. LemmyCaution

    LemmyCaution Member

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    Gary-

    The text for Vermont is correct, but like AZ, AK and WY, I'd strike the text about expecting contact with the police. Constitutional carry and state preemption have been settled case law here for over 100 years.

    I have never had a problem, nor have I heard of anyone else being approached by law enforcement over open carry in a situation where it was legal in Vermont.
     
  20. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Joeschmoe, neither I nor my friends who open carry in Seattle have been detained or harassed by the police, including carrying in front of police at the recent anti gun really and open carrying in front of police while buying guns from sellers at Seattle's gun buyback. Your opinion greatly differs from reality.
     
  21. rtroha

    rtroha Member

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    Ohio: In addition to licensees being able to carry a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle, they also can enter a class D liquor establishment legally as long as they don't consume. An unlicensed open carrier is committing a felony the moment he/she walks in the door.
     
  22. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Member

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    Might want to fix this type under West Virginia:
     
  23. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    zoom6zoom, In WV a loaded defensive firearm carried in a vehicle without any type of permit/license must be in plain view. It can't be concealed. In WV a permit only does one thing for you. It allows you to carry the firearm concealed.
     
  24. leadaddict

    leadaddict Member

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    In regards to Iowa, instead of saying there are "many restrictions", perhaps it would be clearer to state that the rules are exactly the same as concealed carry. The same permit to carry is required and the same laws apply. As far as I know there are no extra restrictions for open carry vs. concealed carry. I think the way it is written now doesn't make that clear.

    The statement regarding the legal requirement to leave private property if asked to do so is a good thing to have in there. Although it applies to all situations, it is much more likely to occur when carrying openly, so I think that's a good warning.

    Thanks for all your work on that site! I refer people to it all the time.
     
  25. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Gregaw, This law is the one that I am looking at. It states you can't go armed inside the limits of any city and specifically mentions Open Carry. It does say except as otherwise provided int his section and that section is below is included in whole below. The way it reads you can't open carry inside a city in Iowa.

    724.4 Carrying Weapons.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who goes armed with a dangerous weapon concealed on or about the person, or who, within the limits of any city, goes armed with a pistol or revolver, or any loaded firearm of any kind, whether concealed or not, or who knowingly carries or transports in a vehicle a pistol or revolver, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.

    724.4 Carrying weapons.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section , a person who goes armed with a dangerous weapon concealed on or about the person, or who, within the limits of any city, goes armed with a pistol or revolver, or any loaded firearm of any kind, whether concealed or not, or who knowingly carries or transports in a vehicle a pistol or revolver, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
    2. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person uses the knife in the commission of a crime, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
    3. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person does not use the knife in the commission of a crime:
    a . If the knife has a blade exceeding eight inches in length, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
    b . If the knife has a blade exceeding five inches but not exceeding eight inches in length, commits a serious misdemeanor.
    4. Subsections 1 through 3 do not apply to any of the following:
    a . A person who goes armed with a dangerous weapon in the person’s own dwelling or place of business, or on land owned or possessed by the person.
    b . A peace officer, when the officer’s duties require the person to carry such weapons.
    c . A member of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or person in the service of the United States, when the weapons are carried in connection with the person’s duties as such.
    d . A correctional officer, when the officer’s duties require, serving under the authority of the Iowa department of corrections.
    e . A person who for any lawful purpose carries an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other dangerous weapon inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person.
    f . A person who for any lawful purpose carries or transports an unloaded pistol or revolver in a vehicle inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment where the pistol or revolver will not be readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.
    g . A person while the person is lawfully engaged in target practice on a range designed for that purpose or while actually engaged in lawful hunting.
    h . A person who carries a knife used in hunting or fishing, while actually engaged in lawful hunting or fishing.
    i . A person who has in the person’s possession and who displays to a peace officer on demand a valid permit to carry weapons which has been issued to the person, and whose conduct is within the limits of that permit. A person shall not be convicted of a violation of this section if the person produces at the person’s trial a permit to carry weapons which was valid at the time of the alleged offense and which would have brought the person’s conduct within this exception if the permit had been produced at the time of the alleged offense.
    j . A law enforcement officer from another state when the officer’s duties require the officer to carry the weapon and the officer is in this state for any of the following reasons:
    (1) The extradition or other lawful removal of a prisoner from this state.
    (2) Pursuit of a suspect in compliance with chapter 806 .
    (3) Activities in the capacity of a law enforcement officer with the knowledge and consent of the chief of police of the city or the sheriff of the county in which the activities occur or of the commissioner of public safety.
    k . A person engaged in the business of transporting prisoners under a contract with the Iowa department of corrections or a county sheriff, a similar agency from another state, or the federal government.
    [S13, §4775-1a, -3a, -4a, -7a, -11a; C24, 27, 31, 35, 39, § 12936 – 12939; C46, 50, 54, 58, 62, 66, 71, 73, 75, 77, §695.2 – 695.5; C79, 81, §724.4]
    83 Acts, ch 7, §2; 83 Acts, ch 96, §123, 159; 87 Acts, ch 13, §5; 88 Acts, ch 1164, §4; 98 Acts, ch 1131, §3
     
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