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Request from handgunlaw.us: look at open carry info?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Derek Zeanah, Feb 27, 2013.

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  1. leadaddict

    leadaddict Member

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    It also specifically mentioned concealed carry in that section. I think the point here is that section 'i" from below allows for open and concealed carry with the iowa permit.

    "i. A person who has in the person’s possession and who displays to a peace officer on demand a valid permit to carry weapons which has been issued to the person, and whose conduct is within the limits of that permit. A person shall not be convicted of a violation of this section if the person produces at the person’s trial a permit to carry weapons which was valid at the time of the alleged offense and which would have brought the person’s conduct within this exception if the permit had been produced at the time of the alleged offense."

    In Iowa it's a carry permit, not a concealed carry permit. I will see if I can find some more authoritative reference for open carry though and get back to you.
     
  2. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Gregaw, That is one problem I have. The Title of the section. I am going to have to put

    Open Carry Without a Permit/License.

    That is what the section is about. That is the question I get all the time. I don't have a permit/license can I open carry.

    You are correct if you have a valid permit/license to carry. Again I am going to have to make the header on this section Open Carry Without a Permit/License.
     
  3. leadaddict

    leadaddict Member

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    Ah, I understand now. Yes, you are 100% right then. I was thinking in terms of with a permit. I agree with the need for a title change then. Thanks again for doing this.
     
  4. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Anyone what to give me your opinion on renaming the Section

    "Open Carry Without A Valid Permit/License"

    For those states that only allow open carry with a permit/license that is stated at the very beginning. Would that be the best Title? Any other suggestions/opinions on what to title it?
     
  5. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    Michigan

    I would add the information regarding open carry without a license and open carry with a CPL. Under current law, those who have a CPL can open carry in pistol free zones, but cannot conceal carry (unless exempted from PFZs under MCL28.425o(4))

    If you do not have a CPL, you cannot carry in any PFZ, but if you have a CPL, you can open carry in a PFZ, and if you have a CPL with exepmtions you can conceal carry even in PFZs.

    PFZ exemptions are common only for law enforcement.
     
  6. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    USAF Vet,

    Michigan was one reason (Thee are others) why I have been putting off adding this info for the last couple years. They are not the only state that has really different things for those who open carry and those who don't. Then having a permit/license changes everything and then other things. That is the reason I put this in the Michigan Entry:

    Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above may not apply to those who open carry. (See state orgs for more information on places off limits when open carrying)

    Then even put this note in the Michigan entry:

    Note: Handgunlaw.us advises you to check out MI Open Carry and MCRGO for more detailed information.

    To try and explain it all would take up pages. Another reason why I put in there to check Opencarry.org and their State RKBA's org as they usually have much more detailed information.

    What I am going to add to MI is

    ......... (New Wording) Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above may not apply to those who open carry. Open Carrying with a valid permit/license or with no valid permit/license have differences on where you can carry and you can't carry and what mode of carry you must carry your defensive Firearm. (See state orgs for more information on places off limits when open carrying) ....(End New Wording)

    Suggestions/opinions/Rants/Better word choice/s as I am not a writer on this wording? Again I don't have the space to go into great detail which was another reason I have been thinking about this for a couple years. I want to give a short synopsis and give them a place to go to hopefully find more detailed info.
     
  7. blarby

    blarby Member

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    Oregon looks spot on.

    I cannot emphasize enough that someone wishing to travel through, or obtain licensure in Oregon is strongly recommended to contact their local sheriff, or sheriff of those areas being traveled through if that were the case.

    Oregon is a strong, albeit fragmented state... I have spoken to sheriffs from Portland through the coast to my surrounding counties- Lynn, and Lane- and gotten substantially different answers as to the application and understanding of handgun law from each of them.

    If you could attach such a disclaimer, you would not be amiss in doing so.

    State law does indeed say one thing. Application has been...mixed at best.

    Thanks again, Gary- for doing the hard labor that is so essential to our rights ( and maintaining and applying them) in our fractured republic.

    If you find yourself up in the JC way- Beer is on me.
     
  8. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Here is the newest edition of my research. Comments/Suggestions/Corrections are wanted.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    hermannr,

    I missed adding a sec to WA. This is in the newest edition for Washington:

    RCW 9.41.060 Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area; (So if engaged in any of these activities you can open carry.)
     
  10. powell&hyde

    powell&hyde Member

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    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  11. brboyer

    brboyer Member

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    Gary,
    For Florida, we have exceptions to 790.053 listed in 790.25(3)
    So it is perfectly legal for anyone 18 or older (not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms by State or Federal law) to openly carry a firearm in certain locations/situations. There are quite a few, but the ones most applicable to us 'common' folks are:

    (g) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state, or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for target, skeet, or trap shooting, while at or going to or from shooting practice; or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for modern or antique firearms collecting, while such members are at or going to or from their collectors’ gun shows, conventions, or exhibits;

    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

    (j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;

    (k) A person firing weapons in a safe and secure indoor range for testing and target practice;

    (n) A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;
     
  12. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Looking at FL instead of putting all that wording in there I am going to add this line.

    See 790.25 for some instances when Open Carry may be legal. 

    I am not trying to have everything and since Open Carry is technically not legal in FL but in some instances you can open carry that will let them read it for themselves. 790.25 will be a link to that section of the FL Code.

    Thank you for pointing that out.
     
  13. janedoedad

    janedoedad Member

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    Georgia is an "Open Carry" state. A Georgia weapons License is required to carry a handgun on your person. The laws (OCGA) makes no difference between open or concealed carry. A permit is not required for a long gun so long as the long gun is carried in fully exposed manner if loaded.

    Off-limits areas apply to open or concealed carry.

    "No firearms" signs have no legal weight, but if you refuse to leave upon being asked to, you may be arrested for criminal trespass.

    Open carry is common in Georgia, even in the urban areas.
     
  14. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Both sources I referenced both stated is was rare in the urban areas and not common in the rural areas. Will check further. Thank you.
     
  15. janedoedad

    janedoedad Member

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    Let me add that rare and common are subjective terms. :cool:

    Georgia has one of the higher percentage per capita of licensed carriers in the country. With that and state premption of local laws, you will see more open carriers here than in locale where local government has a say.

    YMMV

    You are doing g great job with the report, keep up the good work!!
     
  16. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Janedoedad, Am removing the reference to Rare and not common in the GA entry.

    I am also adding this link to the Michigan entry. I already have it on the Michigan page but it gives very good information and is from the MI State Police so will add it again in the Open Carry Section.
    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

    Still a good ways away from adding this information. Hoping for more feedback. May try to post this on another board like it is posted on THR. That may get different people seeing it and more chances for feedback. Derek has been a good friend of Handgunlaw.us and has assisted me often in seeking information and even posting PSA's on THA for Handgunlaw.us. I want to Thank Derek and THR for all their assistance.
     
  17. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Member

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    Agreed. But your text says fireman, not firearm.
     
  18. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    zoom6zoom, HA HA, Spell check won't catch that. That is why I am seeking feedback. Little things like that make a huge difference. Better to catch them here and not after I post them. But it shouldn't be firearm for WV. I changed it to Defensive Handgun. In WV you can't carry any type of HUNTING gun loaded in a vehicle even if you have a permit/license to carry. Only a defensive handgun can be carried and if you don't have a permit/license to carry it must be in plain view. I tell my students to not carry anything over a five inch barrel as Defensive Handgun is not defined in WV law. I even tell them that if a scope is mounted on the Handgun most would consider that a hunting gun and not a defensive handgun. Thanks for pointing out my Spelling/Grammar error. Much Appreciated!
     
  19. Prophet

    Prophet Member

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    PA is correct. It would be nice to see some info pertaining to the Sportsman's Firearms Permit, which allows those between the ages of 18-21 transport any legal firearm unloaded to and from the place they wish to hunt or fish for the purpose of carrying. The disclaimer for LEO is accurate, but it would be nice to also see something along the lines of "do not rely on the opinion of local LEO as their understanding of OC and other carry laws in PA may vary", as has been the case for me on a number of occasions. On one occasion my dad was told that he could be charged for child endangerment if he gifted a handgun to me (I was 18 at the time). On another occasion I had my lawyer at the time's secretary contact the state police department concerning OC at 18 and she was told that OC was not legal until 21.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  20. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Prophet,

    PA law allows those 18 and over to possess and transport a firearm like you stated.

    § 6110.1. Possession of firearm by minor.
    (a) Firearm.--Except as provided in subsection (b), a person
    under 18 years of age shall not possess or transport a firearm
    anywhere in this Commonwealth. (b) Exception.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to a person
    under 18 years of age:
    (1) who is under the supervision of a parent,
    grandparent, legal guardian or an adult acting with the
    expressed consent of the minor's custodial parent or legal
    guardian and the minor is engaged in lawful activity,
    including safety training, lawful target shooting, engaging
    in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm
    or the firearm is unloaded and the minor is transporting it
    for a lawful purpose; or
    (2) who is lawfully hunting or trapping in accordance
    with 34 Pa.C.S. (relating to game). (c) Responsibility of adult.--Any person who knowingly and
    intentionally delivers or provides to the minor a firearm in
    violation of subsection (a) commits a felony of the third
    degree. (d) Forfeiture.--Any firearm in the possession of a person
    under 18 years of age in violation of this section shall be
    promptly seized by the arresting law enforcement officer and
    upon conviction or adjudication of delinquency shall be
    forfeited or, if stolen, returned to the lawful owner.
    (June 13, 1995, 1st Sp.Sess., P.L.1024, No.17, eff. 120 days;
    Nov. 22, 1995, P.L.621, No.66, eff. imd.)
     
  21. Prophet

    Prophet Member

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    Gary, does that apply to transport in a motor vehicle? If not then I'm having difficulty understanding the purpose of SFP availability.
     
  22. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    If you are going to a target range to shoot an 18 Y/O can transport it unloaded and secured. If they are going hunting then the same but they would have to have a hunting license. If they have a handgun and are hunting with it they would have to have the pistol license that you need in PA to hunt with a pistol. (This is not a license to carry but a license to hunt with a handgun.) But at 18 you can possess and transport an unloaded and secured firearm to a place to shoot or hunt etc.
     
  23. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    The hunting part is where the catch is. The hunting regs state to carry a firearm. They don't say Handgun or long gun but firearm and you are hunting or fishing you have to have a Sportsman's Firearm Permit if you wish to open carry. Looks to me like the state Is just trying to make money from the hunters and fisherman. So if you are hunting or fishing you have to have a Sportsman Firearm Permit in PA. But to just go to the range and shoot or transport a secured firearm to your own property in the country to shoot you just have to be 18.



    From the PA State Police FAQ's
    http://www.portal.state.pa.us/porta...jID=4451&&PageID=462424&level=2&css=L2&mode=2
    Who can apply for a Sportsman’s Firearm Permit?

    An individual who is age 18 or older and is licensed to hunt, trap or fish, or who has been issued a permit relating to hunting dogs, may apply for a Sportsman's Firearm Permit by submitting a completed application along with the required fee to the county treasurer's office. The permit shall be issued immediately and be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a period of five years from the date of issue for any "legal firearm", when carried in conjunction with a valid hunting, furtaking or fishing license, or permit relating to hunting dogs. The issuances of a Sportsman’s Firearm Permit allows the individual to carry a firearm if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers, fishing or training dogs, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers, fish, or train dogs during the regular training season, or returning from such places. A Sportsman's Firearm Permit is NOT a License to Carry a firearm concealed.
     
  24. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    Now I have it. If you get the Sportsman's Firearm Permit and you are hunting, fishing, trapping or training dogs you can carry a Concealed handgun while actually hunting, fishing, trapping or training dogs. It states while going to or from the activities but the law on carrying in vehicles overrides that so it has to be unloaded while transporting. So to just transport a firearm in a vehicle without any type permit/license you must be 18 and the firearm has to be unloaded and secured.
     
  25. Gary Slider

    Gary Slider Member

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    I am also running into another problem. In some states there are places that are legal to carry with a valid permit/license that open carry is forbidden. Then you have Michigan where open carry is allowed in places that those with a valid permit/license can't carry. The MI part doesn't bother me to much but the part where open carry is not legal where those with a valid permit/license it is legal. I am thinking of adding this sentence to the last paragraph in most of the listings. Feedback on this addition would be appreciated.
    This is the last paragraph in most state listings. The bold part is the sentence I want to add:
    _____________________
    This is not the last word on Open Carry in this state. In some states Open Carry is forbidden in places where those with a valid permit/license can carry. Check at www.opencarry.org or go to Google and type in State Name Open Carry or Open Carry State Name for a search for open carry info in this state. Check with this State's RKBA Organization/s. Also see “Attorney General Opinions/Court Cases” Section for any written opinions/Cases on Open Carry.
    ___________________________

    If the bold didn't work in the above paragraph I will split it up here to show you what I want to add
    ______________________
    This is not the last word on Open Carry in this state.

    (This sentence to be added) In some states Open Carry is forbidden in places where those with a valid permit/license can carry. (End of added Sentence)

    Check at www.opencarry.org or go to Google and type in State Name Open Carry or Open Carry State Name for a search for open carry info in this state. Check with this State's RKBA Organization/s. Also see “Attorney General Opinions/Court Cases” Section for any written opinions/Cases on Open Carry.
     
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