I enjoy shooting the U.S. weapons of WWII. I currently have an M1 Garand, 1903A3 and am researching purchasing an M1 Carbine. I have looked at the Universal carbines; but I understand they have cast receivers. However, are they good shooters? I am looking at both James river Armory and Inland because I know their rifles have new barrels. I am also looking on Gunbroker for good deals. Thanks for any suggestions and information as to the best Carbine for the money.
Researching purchase of an M1 carbine
- Thread starter DavidB2
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AirForceShooter
Member
See if you can find a Plainfield for around $400.
GI pattern and parts and excellent shooters.
AFS
GI pattern and parts and excellent shooters.
AFS
lemaymiami
Member
Here's another thread on this topic - it's current....
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=808088
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=808088
Ibmikey
Member
Check the current posts on this topic...today's .cast receivers on a Carbine are not a real issue as the techniques have been perfected and you will never fire enough rounds to worry about it ( about everything from Ruger uses castings with total success).
As far as buying a Universal...and not to offend the Universal folks but.....there are much better offerings out there.
As far as buying a Universal...and not to offend the Universal folks but.....there are much better offerings out there.
CapnMac
Member
If you are looking for WWII, the Universals are not "it."
Neither are Iver Johnson's. IMIs, Auto Ordinance, or the ilk, Neither are the two modern companies, Rockola, and Inland.
The Universals also have the onus of having internals as common to a Carbine as a Mini-14 is to an AR.
The "new" made carbines are selling in the $1100 to $1400 range--price for which an actual, genuine Carbine can be bought for.
NOw, the carbine forums are suggesting that the remaining crop of $700-800 carbines often are reimports, and often need care and work to get going right.
All of which just brings back the irritation that the Crash of '08 made me sell my two-rivet Sarco(IBM) high-wood Carbine.
Neither are Iver Johnson's. IMIs, Auto Ordinance, or the ilk, Neither are the two modern companies, Rockola, and Inland.
The Universals also have the onus of having internals as common to a Carbine as a Mini-14 is to an AR.
The "new" made carbines are selling in the $1100 to $1400 range--price for which an actual, genuine Carbine can be bought for.
NOw, the carbine forums are suggesting that the remaining crop of $700-800 carbines often are reimports, and often need care and work to get going right.
All of which just brings back the irritation that the Crash of '08 made me sell my two-rivet Sarco(IBM) high-wood Carbine.
Steel Horse Rider
Member
If you really want to shoot and collect the weapons of WWII (as I do) you need to find the real deal, not a copy.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Recently had a similar thread you may want to read. Personally if you want to have WWII GI rifles (guns) I would be looking US GI rather than the later rifles.
Ron
Ron
Ibmikey
Member
I agree a GI Carbine is the best option, however I would want to inspect and even fire a prospective buy. Too many Carbines have had numerous aftermarket parts applied some of dubious quality ( direct from China) or other issues. Import marks are sometimes bold sometimes not and I have seen serial numbers restamped with numbers that do not fit Carbine production. I collected Carbines over the past forty years and have seen a lot of sneaky stuff done to them.
If you can authenticate a CMP ( or old DCM) sale you are on pretty safe ground even though they may have changes made while on lend lease to other countries.
The new manufacture Carbines are ok but expensive when you consider they are reproductions. Plus side is you have a new rifle with a warranty if a problem should arise. Prices of GI's have risen steadily over the years to astronomical prices for unmolested units, therefore many who have them will not shoot the GI's. A few months ago I shot a nice Texas hog with one of my Carbines, a 1942 issue with 53xxx serial number, I shoot all of my carbines.
If you can authenticate a CMP ( or old DCM) sale you are on pretty safe ground even though they may have changes made while on lend lease to other countries.
The new manufacture Carbines are ok but expensive when you consider they are reproductions. Plus side is you have a new rifle with a warranty if a problem should arise. Prices of GI's have risen steadily over the years to astronomical prices for unmolested units, therefore many who have them will not shoot the GI's. A few months ago I shot a nice Texas hog with one of my Carbines, a 1942 issue with 53xxx serial number, I shoot all of my carbines.
CoalTrain49
Member
I have a US GI Inland. I've rebuilt the bolt and it works fine. Barrel isn't Inland, it's WRA but it's still in spec by arsenal standards and it's a good shooter.
Nothing wrong with the repros but they will always be just that, a repro. Why not have the real deal? 1K will buy you a nice GI. Go on over to the CMP forum and wait for a CMP service grade to show up. You won't have to wait very long as I've seen several in the last few months.
Nothing wrong with the repros but they will always be just that, a repro. Why not have the real deal? 1K will buy you a nice GI. Go on over to the CMP forum and wait for a CMP service grade to show up. You won't have to wait very long as I've seen several in the last few months.
Ibmikey
Member
Underwood made truck loads of barrels for the Carbine Procurement program during the war...their barrels were used on their own Carbines and in the free issue pool where any maker could use them ( cannot remember if Saginaw did) and then they (underwood) provided replacement barrels that were installed during the next decade and beyond until exhausted. Your Carbine most likely falls into the replacement barrel category. Underwood made fine barrels.
Plainfield carbines were manufactured out of military parts reassembled in Plainfield NJ. Mine dates back to the late 50s or early 60s and I still fire it regularly. It has light recoil and weight and it's just plain old fun to shoot.
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
Check this site out for information on carbines, particularly post-war models.
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/index.html
According to this page (about half-way down), the receivers for the Plainfield and Iver Johnson (Iver Johnson acquired Plainfield and began using their tooling) carbines were cast while the ones for Universal were forged.
I owned two Universal Carbines. One, I traded for a 5.7mm Johnson Carbine and the other (which was my first center-fire rifle) my father gave away when he was mad at me. Both worked fine with the supplied 5 round magazines and most 15 round magazines I tried, but neither of them would feed out of any 30 round magazine that I tried.
If you're just wanting something to shoot .30 Carbine ammunition that looks, feels and shoots like a carbine, then I would have no hesitation buying a Universal provided I had it inspected by a qualified gunsmith first. Remember, the World War II vintage guns are more than 70 years old and even the last Universals off the line are more than 30. Like any mechanism, a gun is subject to wear and tear.
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/index.html
According to this page (about half-way down), the receivers for the Plainfield and Iver Johnson (Iver Johnson acquired Plainfield and began using their tooling) carbines were cast while the ones for Universal were forged.
I owned two Universal Carbines. One, I traded for a 5.7mm Johnson Carbine and the other (which was my first center-fire rifle) my father gave away when he was mad at me. Both worked fine with the supplied 5 round magazines and most 15 round magazines I tried, but neither of them would feed out of any 30 round magazine that I tried.
If you're just wanting something to shoot .30 Carbine ammunition that looks, feels and shoots like a carbine, then I would have no hesitation buying a Universal provided I had it inspected by a qualified gunsmith first. Remember, the World War II vintage guns are more than 70 years old and even the last Universals off the line are more than 30. Like any mechanism, a gun is subject to wear and tear.
Check out these pages for the history of the Plainfield carbine (prior to its acquisition by Iver Johnson). Page 2 even has a list of serial numbers and production years so you can find out when yours was made.
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_plainfield.html
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_Plainfield02.html
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_Plainfield04.html
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_Plainfield05.html
I am not a collector, but have loved the M1 Carbine since I carried one in Korea and Nam. They were both M2s, but same basic gun. The one I had in Nam was a chopped m2 that I loved. It was so light and easy to maneuver, and could get a few rounds off in 1/2 the time as the M14 or 16.
I had picked up a 43 Underwood several months ago, and wanted to get something like my Nam gun for Home Defense and SHTF use.
Here is the Inland Advisor I got a couple months ago, and put it in a cut down m1 stock to replicate my Nam gun. It has had 2 range sessions so far, with the 2nd one to see if I needed to polished the feed ramp to use soft points. I fired 2 15 round and 2 30 rounds mags of soft points with out a glitch.
I feel very comfortable if I have to use this in a defensive situation. Since this is for close in use, I added a rail and installed a light/laser to it.
This is my 43 Underwood.
I had picked up a 43 Underwood several months ago, and wanted to get something like my Nam gun for Home Defense and SHTF use.
Here is the Inland Advisor I got a couple months ago, and put it in a cut down m1 stock to replicate my Nam gun. It has had 2 range sessions so far, with the 2nd one to see if I needed to polished the feed ramp to use soft points. I fired 2 15 round and 2 30 rounds mags of soft points with out a glitch.
I feel very comfortable if I have to use this in a defensive situation. Since this is for close in use, I added a rail and installed a light/laser to it.
This is my 43 Underwood.
Sunray
Member
Plainfield carbines were originally manufactured out of military parts. Mine(that I've had for 40 years with no parts ever being changed and has never given me any grief a bath didn't fix) has no issue parts.
Universals come in 2 flavours. Early and Late. The Early models are ok. Made out of surplus parts. The Late Models are, um, universally known as junk. They thought they could improve the design, but then used poorly made parts. Like op handles that tend to break and currently cannot be replaced.
Universals come in 2 flavours. Early and Late. The Early models are ok. Made out of surplus parts. The Late Models are, um, universally known as junk. They thought they could improve the design, but then used poorly made parts. Like op handles that tend to break and currently cannot be replaced.
I made a small web page about the M1 Carbines. Added some useful information to it.
http://webpages.charter.net/wd4ngb/
http://webpages.charter.net/wd4ngb/
Reloadron
Contributing Member
kBob
Member
wd4ngb,
nice "universal". I assume you paid a Universal price for a collector M-1, with push button safety after the front band and sights rework yet.
May we ask what you paid the pawn shop and when?
If so, we do.
I like your advisor as well.
-kBob
nice "universal". I assume you paid a Universal price for a collector M-1, with push button safety after the front band and sights rework yet.
May we ask what you paid the pawn shop and when?
If so, we do.
I like your advisor as well.
-kBob
Acera
Member
You can still get them from the CMP. However, they are auction only now (and probably forever).
http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/
Probably have to pay a bit more, but you will be guaranteed a good, safe and inspected rifle.
Next, I would hit gun shows and watch what is coming in the door by folks to sell. I've seen a number of them in the last few years. Check the tables, bad news is those will usually be higher priced as show sellers know there is a demand for them.
The big Houston gun show will have a number of tables with a good selection this weekend if you are nearby.
Estate sales are another source. Got a buddy who has found a couple that way (among other things).
Good Luck,
.
http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/
Probably have to pay a bit more, but you will be guaranteed a good, safe and inspected rifle.
Next, I would hit gun shows and watch what is coming in the door by folks to sell. I've seen a number of them in the last few years. Check the tables, bad news is those will usually be higher priced as show sellers know there is a demand for them.
The big Houston gun show will have a number of tables with a good selection this weekend if you are nearby.
Estate sales are another source. Got a buddy who has found a couple that way (among other things).
Good Luck,
.
kBob
Member
While on the subject of M-1 Carbines......
sometime in the murky past I must have loaned out my FMs and TCs on carbines, one of which contained a change sheet that included a scaled drawing of a 25 meter zeroing target (looked like and upside down black lollypop) for use at 25 meters with instructions for its use.
Anyone have that change and can post the illustration and instructions?
25 meters is all I can manage in the yard. I would like to be pretty darn close if I make the drive to a 200 meter range.
oh and......
wd4ngb,
as a kid I shot a fair amount of the Remington and Winchester with exposed lead tips (one or the other even had a little bitty hollow point in the lead) and never had piston issues. Sometimes noticed shiny spots on the feed ramp, but other than that no issue. Also shot a lot of corrosive (I was told) French berdan and just cleaned with hot soapy wather then RBC and then lubed and carbine still went click-clack on end for end tests weeks later.
I rather imagine lead bullet loads with 2400 where folks are trying to get the guns to work semi auto with un coated unjacketed lead bullets WOULD be an issue though. I have a box of hard cast 110 lubed and sized carbine bullets some one with a Blackhawk gave me and have been considering building some subsonic manually fed loads which I suspect would not lead too badly, but have been reluctant to try it for reasons you have expressed.
-kBob
sometime in the murky past I must have loaned out my FMs and TCs on carbines, one of which contained a change sheet that included a scaled drawing of a 25 meter zeroing target (looked like and upside down black lollypop) for use at 25 meters with instructions for its use.
Anyone have that change and can post the illustration and instructions?
25 meters is all I can manage in the yard. I would like to be pretty darn close if I make the drive to a 200 meter range.
oh and......
wd4ngb,
as a kid I shot a fair amount of the Remington and Winchester with exposed lead tips (one or the other even had a little bitty hollow point in the lead) and never had piston issues. Sometimes noticed shiny spots on the feed ramp, but other than that no issue. Also shot a lot of corrosive (I was told) French berdan and just cleaned with hot soapy wather then RBC and then lubed and carbine still went click-clack on end for end tests weeks later.
I rather imagine lead bullet loads with 2400 where folks are trying to get the guns to work semi auto with un coated unjacketed lead bullets WOULD be an issue though. I have a box of hard cast 110 lubed and sized carbine bullets some one with a Blackhawk gave me and have been considering building some subsonic manually fed loads which I suspect would not lead too badly, but have been reluctant to try it for reasons you have expressed.
-kBob
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