Response to CNN Center murder yesterday

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ilcylic

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http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55026

By Bob Allen

His name is Charles.

Her name was Clara.

Was. Past tense.

The first and last time Charles saw Clara alive, she was being dragged by her hair through the CNN Center in Atlanta. Clara's tormentor ordered Charles out of the way, and instead of standing his ground to defend an obviously distressed woman, he obeyed the thug's order and let them pass.

Charles' choice was to go in search of a guard instead of personally coming to the woman's aid, and the tragic result is that Clara is now dead.

Going to find "help" turned out to be no help at all.
Could Charles have saved Clara? It's possible he could not. Perhaps Charles would have also been a victim. We can never be sure.

What we do know is that Charles obeyed a thug – refused to defend the defenseless – and two people are now dead.

What would you have done?

What would I have done?

There was a time when a majority of American men would almost surely have come to Clara's aid. They believed in an ethic that said, "Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter." (Proverbs 24:11)

It was a day when men, recognizing the reality of evil, carried weapons that enabled them to stand in the gap for those being unjustly tormented and threatened. Virtually any man on the street could come to the aid of a victim like Clara.

That was then; this is now.

Charles is probably a good, law-abiding citizen of modern America. Therefore he knows all too well he cannot carry a weapon to defend people like Clara without asking permission of the government.

Long past are the days of George Tucker, a man wounded twice in America's Revolutionary War, who wrote: The right of self-defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever … the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."

Or again, William Rawle, appointed as a U.S. attorney by President George Washington: "No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction, be conceived to give the Congress a power to disarm the people. A flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if, in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either [state or federal government] should attempt it, [the Second] Amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both."

Most Americans today probably couldn't even imagine living when the laws in Virginia made men subject to prosecution for NOT carrying their weapons with them at all times, even (gasp!) being specifically mandated to bring them to church!

Yes, we're a long way from those days, and I wonder if perhaps we've so lost the ability to govern ourselves that we deserve to be helpless in the face of evil.

Yet, as soon as I write that, I come back to a simple truth: Clara didn't deserve to die. She had a perfect right to expect someone – anyone – with a sense of decency and courage to come to her aid in time of need.

Charles did not. No one else did.

We don't have to guess what George Tucker, William Rawle and the other Founding Fathers would say about our "gun control" laws that restrain only the law-abiding.

All we have to do is read their writings.

And perhaps ponder this horrible truth: Clara is dead.
 
"Who Are You?" who, who; I really want to know

"Ilcylic:"

Please refer to thread in S&T forum, titled "Moral Obligation."

There are many self centered "Charles;" armed or not, out there.

The old John Wayne "True Grit," while only an entertainment movie, had the right concept.
 
Bob Allen, you must be wrong.

Ask Mayor Shirley Jackson of Atlanta, Georgia, where that shooting took place. Mayor Jackson is a member of Michael Bloomberg's Coalition of Mayors Against Illegal Guns.

Part of Mayor Bloomberg's agenda is to prevent American citizens from owning and carrying firearms with which to defend themselves. Mayor Bloomberg and Mayor Jackson want women like Clara to depend on the police to protect their lives.

Clara's fate shows how much mayors like Atlanta's Mayor Jackson values the lives of their constituents. Not at all.
 
This article sums up our society perfectly. Are we to be unarmed and run away? Or armed and help the innocent? Are we citizens or men first?

We don;t know what we would have done until we have been in the situation. But unarmed we may not have much choice. At least armed we have the option to act bravely and honorably, whether we do is another matter.
 
“There was a time when a majority of American men would almost surely have come to Clara’s aid.…”

Bull****. That may be the way things should be, but it has rarely been the way that they are.

~G. Fink
 
Gordon Fink said:
...it has rarely been the way that they are.
I disagree strongly. There are still many parts of America, once you get away from the coasts and out of the cities (you know, out here in flyover country) where people still have the quaint, outdated belief that helping others, even if it means sacrificing your own welfare, is a fundamental moral responsibility.
 
+1 'CARD.
There are still people that are willing to help those in need. As it should be.
 
I just don’t see it, guys. Most people will stand around and do nothing rather than render aid. Of course, most people aren’t in “flyover country.” :neener:

In fact, however, the gentleman in this story did render aid. Just as the authorities had instructed him, he tried to call the cops.

~G. Fink
 
In both tragic instances, gunmen chose locations that are open to the public to shoot and kill women who worked there: Atlanta hotel worker Clara Riddles, 22, and University of Washington researcher Rebecca Griego, 26.

That needs some punctuation help. It sounds like there are places we can just go and shoot women for no reason. I don't see how that got past the editor that way. :banghead:
 
Just a minor point... why is it preferable that Charles should assist Clara, rather than Clara being able to defend herself?

Why should Clara have no other option but to hope for assistance from a bystander? It is entirely possible for Charles to have been elsewhere... then who should have helped her?

Self Reliance. I am the only person that I can reasonably expect to be there if my life is ever threatened.

If I had been in Charles' place, I believe that I would have come to her aid. Still, Clara shouldn't need to rely on the good will of strangers when it comes to something as critical as self defense.
 
Just a minor point... why is it preferable that Charles should assist Clara, rather than Clara being able to defend herself?

Why should Clara have no other option but to hope for assistance from a bystander? It is entirely possible for Charles to have been elsewhere... then who should have helped her?

Self Reliance. I am the only person that I can reasonably expect to be there if my life is ever threatened.

If I had been in Charles' place, I believe that I would have come to her aid. Still, Clara shouldn't need to rely on the good will of strangers when it comes to something as critical as self defense.

Although I fully believe that all women should carry to defend themselves, I also know full well most wont. Even if they are allowed, they wont. It is not up to use to decide who should or shouldn't. It is up to us to defend our right to carry. Let those who want to carry, and hopefully most will, be there when something like this happens.

Why was it "up to Charles" to do something? Because he was there. Now Charles has to think about what he didn't do and what if it was someone he loved. Now Charles has to realize that many people are like him, they will turn into Mr. Compliant in the face of the BG. He was there, he chose to do nothing. That is a hard thing to live with, because now someone is dead as a result. Can we say it would be different if he did do something? No we can't.
 
We don;t know what we would have done until we have been in the situation. But unarmed we may not have much choice. At least armed we have the option to act bravely and honorably, whether we do is another matter.

I suspect a great many Americans are deathly afraid to find out whether they have courage.
 
It has been said that the only people who are afraid of arms in the hands of honest people are dishonest people.

Jim
 
The greatest generation gave birth to the least generation by pampering and codling their children. The media, educatonal, political and legal commities fostered the idea of dependance on government providing everything including personal protection from human goblins bent on self gratificaion at others expense. We have become a nation of preditors and whusses.

Now we are well into the second and third generation of children of whusses and the parents don't know anything about discipline except Ritalin so there is no way to return to the standards of behaviour we knew prior to the 60s. Sadly.
 
The greatest generation gave birth to the least generation by pampering and codling their children. The media, educatonal, political and legal commities fostered the idea of dependance on government providing everything including personal protection from human goblins bent on self gratificaion at others expense. We have become a nation of preditors and whusses.

Now we are well into the second and third generation of children of whusses and the parents don't know anything about discipline except Ritalin so there is no way to return to the standards of behaviour we knew prior to the 60s. Sadly.

The worse part of this truth is that those who have been raised with honest discipline are acussed of child abuse by the adults who were codled as children. A copy is never as good as the original. So it seems it is true with discipline. A parent that refuses to correctly raise and teach their children end up raising children in adults' bodies.
 
Now we are well into the second and third generation of children of whusses and the parents don't know anything about discipline except Ritalin so there is no way to return to the standards of behaviour we knew prior to the 60s. Sadly.

This is certainly true in many cases, but it's not an absolute truth. Some parents understand that they need to be their child's parent, not their child's friend. Some parents keep involved in their kids' education and know their circle of friends, and make adjustments and corrections when necessary.

It won't change the world overnight, but neither is it a futile effort.
 
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