Return to LGS for an Enfield?

[Noah]

Bought the rifle, scroll down for pictures!

My brother and I stopped in at the local gun shop earlier today. He was looking at holsters and handguns, I was just coming along to browse and hope for some 22LR for my little brother and sister to shoot.

After looking over the long guns on display and examining a few pistols my brother was interested in, I saw a blue plastic barrel in the back of the store, halfway behind the counter, obscured by a cardboard box and a coat lying on the top. I also saw what looked like two older rifles, and being curious, I asked what they were.

The gentleman working the counter told me it was a beat up Japanese rifle and a 6.5mm Swiss. Assuming he meant one of those straight pull bolt actions I'd always found intriguing, I asked if I could maneuver around the counter and boxes and take a look.

I looked at the Japanese rifle first. I don't know much about the service rifles they fielded, Arisakas and such, but this one was in clearly bad shape, with a terrible bore and the upper forend gone. The sights were like an aperture mounted where a conventional rear sight ought to be, with very poor visibility. I doubted the thing would shoot anyway, and had never seen it's cartridge available anywhere.

I then pulled out the "6.5 Swiss". With the forend extending all the way to the muzzle, I assumed it was indeed what I had been told it was. Then I noticed the box magazine, the firing mechanism at the back of the bolt, the sights, the curved bolt. It was a No 1 Mk III Enfield. Being fairly ignorant on Enfields, I failed to note the manufacturer or even check if the parts matched. The stock was a little worn, the metal had some surface rust, but the action was very smooth and the bore and rifling looked nice. The chamber was a nice smooth silver. It didn't have a sling nor a bayonet.

The rifle had a crude orange sticker marked $279, but the owner of my LGS isn't opposed to haggling, and the rifle was pretty much buried out of sight anyway. He would probably take less, how much less depending on how much he had in the rifle in the first place.

I'm thinking of going back tomorrow for a second look. I've restored a few Mosins, SKSs and the like, and I could make the Enfield prettier if that was its biggest issue.

I don't know much about Enfields, so could I have some advice from those more knowledgeable?

Is $279 a fair price to pay?

What would be a fair price if the numbers matched?

If they didn't?

Should I even go back?

Any red flags to watch out for?

I'm sorry I don't have any pics, but I am sure some of THR's surplus aficionados will still have an opinion they would be willing to share with me.

 

[rule303]

Well, Enfields value can be all over the map, depending on manufacturer, date, whether or not the rifle is "correct" and the numbers match. That being said, $279 is on the low end for a complete shooter. If the gun has been sporterized, it is not worth that no matter what, but for a complete No1mkIII, I don't think you can get burned at that price. They are a pleasure to shoot, and researching all the proof marks can be fun too.

 

[Noah]

It isn't sporterized at all, the stock is a little rough though. More of an acetone- sandpaper- oil fix than glue, putty, and filler.

 

[DougW]

Check out the makings on the wrist knox on the right side. Also look for serial numbers, something like ShtLe MkIII, or #1mkIII, look at the end of the barrel and see if the barrel is nearly flush with the nose cap, is there a disc in the butt stock on the side, is the rear sight a ladder type or a peep, etc. Anything in the way of the markings can help identify if it is a BSA, Lithgow for Australia, an Ishapore from India, or what. Pics would be very helpful.

 

[rondog]

Definitely worth looking into, take a small flashlight and look it over good, especially the bore. It could be WWI vintage, or up into the 50's (60's?), those were made for a lot of years in a lot of places. I'd start low, like $150, and haggle. They can be good, or worn smooth out.

 

[Noah]

It's 1942 production, I took note of that much. I also checked the bore with a flashlight, it looked pretty good. I also took notice that it had a brassy buttplate with a flip open compartment, I presume for a cleaning kit.

Thanks for the advice and recommendations. I will go in tomorrow for a closer look, and probably leave with a new rifle

Lithgow is Australian, GRI or Ishapore is Indian, right?

 

[Hardtarget]

Go get it...take it home. It will be a good addition to your safe. Then start looking for ammo. They are fun to shoot...but then so are all guns!

Mark

 

[frankenstein406]

Offer 225 for both.

 

[Noah]

Regarding the Japanese rifle, I did a little google-ing and it looks like the fore end is complete, if unconventional.

It's a 6.5x50mm, about as long as the Enfield No1 Mk3. The sights are like a small aperture where a notch sight ought to be, terrible visibility. It was marked about $225, I think.

In a separate plastic barrel, they also had a CVA Apollo .50 cal muzzleloader with a really nice laminated stock, I'm assuming an aftermarket. It seemed functional, though the barrel had a little rust and the ramrod had a layer of corrosion on the end. It was marked $80. It seemed a good deal, but I have no black powder experience and would have to also invest in supplies and tools for that.

No1 Mk3 Enfield for $279, so-so condition 6.5mm Arisaka for $225, so-so condition CVA Apollo .50 cal for $80. Should I go for more than just the Enfield and try for a deal?

 

[Noah]

I went back in today intending to buy the rifle.

I looked at it in more detail first. It's got mostly matching parts, crisp lands and grooves, a good looking crown, and a healthy chamber and bolt assembly.

It's a Lithgow, Australian wartime NoI MkIII, made in 1942.

The LGS was going to let me have it for $275, but they were having trouble getting through to make an NICS check. They had been on hold for an hour when I arrived, and had no idea when it would start working again when I left.

They had their phone on speaker, waiting to get through. It was just "elevator music" with a brief interruption every few minutes with a recording saying that their time was valued and the next available agent would take their call.

The rifle is now sitting in a different back corner, in a different plastic barrel, but it has my name on it, literally. They also offered to include a box of PPU .303 for free.

Anyone else have issues with NICS today?

 

[DougW]

Good job! A nice Lithgow is a good find. Need pics when you get it home!

 

[crazysccrmd]

I had no issues about an hour ago.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Btw the Schmidt-Rubin K31 Swiss is 7.5mm

 

[Sam1911]

If it is in decent shape at all, you're going to be quite happy with that. Good eye, and nice catch!

 

[bainter1212]

$275 is a great price for any decent No. 1....but even better for an Aussie. The Lithgows were some of the best made Enfields.

Would love to see pics and a range report when you get the gun.

 

[Noah]

Called the gun shop today, they said their calls started going through again shortly after I left.

I went back in today, filled out the paperwork, paid the 274.99 plus tax, collected the box of PPU .303 they gave me for free (only .303 rifle, only .303 ammo they had).

I took some photos to share:

 

[Noah]

And a few more:

 

[Noah]

Tried to take a picture of the rifling from the muzzle end, it didn't go so well but I uploaded it anyway.

All the numbers match, with the possible exception of the magazine but that's because I couldn't find the serial. Is it inside the body?

If you look closely below and to the right of the serial on the stock, you can see a faint "1943". Would this be an issue date?

Is there supposed to be some sort of importation mark somewhere? I wasn't able to find one, externally anyway.

Scratched carefully into the stock, on the left side just behind the grip, are the letters/ initials "JM".

I haven't done any cleaning yet... I have cleaned cosmo out of and restored a trio of Mosins, an SKS, and a WASR. What would you recommend if I wanted to clean the stock and metal? The wood is darkened in most places by built up grime and oil but does not seem saturated in a preservative. Same for the metal- a little surface rust in a few spots like the bayonet lug, but clean otherwise.

 

[DougW]

During the war the rifles went straight to the units, as there was a shortage, so 1943 could be an isue date. That is not normally done, but who knows.

An all matching Lithgow is a good find. Take care in disassembly of the wood. Remove the butt stock first, then the forearm. Cleaning the wood with Murphy's Oil Soap, but be very careful. The coachwood used by the Aussie's was fairly fragile and not as strong as oak, maple, burch, or beech.

You definately have a keeper, espicially if there are no import marks on it. Cleaned up and properly oiled, your rifle will be worth $100 more than you paid for it.

 

[bainter1212]

Finding a matching magazine on an enfield is not common, and generally will not detract from the "numbers matching" label.
You can also clean the wood by gently wiping it down with a 50/50 mix of BLO and Turpentine. I used this method on a Jungle Carbine I recently acquired and it worked quite well.

 

[PJSprog]

Nice find, Noah!
Oh, how I do love old military bolt rifles.

 

[murdoc rose]

please do not take any kind of sand paper to it to "pretty" it up

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Lithgow did not number magazines. All the serial numbers that can match on that rifle do match. The difference between stock date and action date isn't unusual for a Lithgow; the action was built in 1942 and most likely the rifle was assembled early in 1943. Looks like a nice example of a wartime Aussie SMLE.

 

[mio]

Good buy! I've never seen one in original condition around here. Anytime I see one for sale it's sporterized and they still go for $200-250 because they are popular for deer hunting especially with the slightly older crowd. I just traded one of mine for a 16ga auto and although I really, really like the 16ga I miss that enfield it was one of my better ones.

 

[MrMarty51]

I once had an Enfield, a great old shooter, I sold it, now I really miss it, kickin myself while reading this.
I still have over 400 rounds all loaded and ready to go. I can not, at this time afford another rifle but I do`nt know if I can afford to sell the cartridges either.
In the containers is a box of fifty rounds. Headstamped VII GB1942 at least the cartridge I looked at had that stamp onit.
There is 185 rounds in the container with the box, other coffee container is holding 200 rounds.
I have had these for about fifteen years, waiting for a nice military Enfield rifle like what You just aquired.
I also have an Enfield in .308 cal, it has been sporterized and I do`nt like that much. It`d be good for a rancher pickumup type of a rifle.