Reusing rifle brass

[bison]

Hi - I'm a fairly recent reloader and am looking for some tips on how to know how many times I can reload the brass. I reload 30-06, .270, and .223 for hunting and fun, and never push the limit of published loads.

I've read of some signs to look for (flattened primers, a sticky bolt, splits) and haven't yet figured out the whole "partial full resize" thing for my bolt loads so just FL resize every time (and trim of course). I find that it's hard to be organized enough to keep track of the number of times I've fired any given cartridge - far easier to just toss them in the cleaner when I get back from the range!

Anything wrong with simply marking the brass somehow (I'm thinking a small scratch on the base next to the primer) each time I've fired it, then simply tossing it after say 5 or 6 reloads (inspecting each time to make sure nothing is obviously wrong). The brass for these calibers is pretty cheap and/or available at the range to pick up so I'm wondering if it's worth any more effort than that.

Thanks!

 

[W.E.G.]

Hot loads fired in a semi-auto are not going to get many reloads.
I chuck such brass after three firings.

Mild loads fired in a bolt-gun might allow the brass to go a dozen times or more.

By only neck-sizing (you need a special neck-sizing die), you might get an amazing number of reloads, but at the expense of that ammo only being usable in just one rifle.

 

[Slamfire]

I took one set of 308 LC cases 22 or 24 reloads in a M1a. Along the way I had cases which developed body splits, due to brass flaws, and these were discarded. I have cases that failed due to neck splits. These were discarded.

I pushed the shoulders of the cases back about .003" each firing, all cases were full length resized, most of the time in small base dies. I never got a single case head separation and that was due to the fact that I used lubricated cases in this mechanism. When the rifle unlocked, the case was not stuck to the chamber walls, and thus no measureable case stretching occurred during extraction. This would not make much of a difference in a FAL, because that rifle is a rear lugged entity and cases get stretched something awful because 4” of bolt stretches before unlock. M1a’s are front lockers and the amount of case stretch due to lug compression is insignificant compared to a FAL.

I came to the opinion that a rifle case can be shot a lot longer than most people would care to admit. The lifetime limitations at first blush were case cracking and primer pocket tightness. Obviously in a gas gun mechanism, having the primer fall out during feed is undesirable. Just ask anyone who reloaded an AMERC case, primers fall out like snowflakes in a blizzard.

Now I did say first blush because things are not always obvious. I sectioned cases that failed due to body splits and neck cracks, looking for the case head separation. Never found a case head separation but I did notice that brass was being washed out internally, at the bottom quarter of the case. The interior surface had a spongy texture, which increased in “sponginess” the more the case was reloaded.

Obviously the case wall is being reduced, and when the material thickness is reduced, case strength is reduced.

I don’t know the break even point. I never weight measured the amount of brass wash, can’t run a structural analysis program, or correlate my results to anything. So, mysticism is as good an approach as anything. Ten is a good number, you have ten fingers, ten toes. It just might be prudent to dump rifle cases after ten reloads. If you have six fingers per hand: twelve reloads. That is about as scientific as I can offer.

 

[Grumulkin]

How may times you can reload brass depends on multiple factors such as how hot the load is, how well the cartridge fits the chamber and brass brand. If you do nothing special, you should get 3 to 5 reloads. If you neck size, use good brass and don't load too heavy, you could get over 20 reloads from it.

 

[nambu1]

Check the brass after you resize and discard any that show signs of stress. I have had factory loads split when shot.

 

[WNTFW]

Things that case me to throw cases out:

Your case will get a loose primer pocket, discard case.

Cracked necks happen. Annealing can help with this.

Case head separations can be bad. Learn how to spot the ring developing. It is about the length of a .45 or 9mm up from the head. It is not necessarily easy to spot. You can bend a wire to drag the insde of the case to look for the ring. The wire will catch on the ring. This may be hard to feel as well. Seeing some examples firsthand help, but look for some pics on the web.

On the bolt gun it is easier to track brass. The semi-auto throws brass so you get some range pickup mixed in.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Most everybody has nailed it.....I've bought 100 factory cases with a new 700 .30-06 in 1992. I neck size only and only load mid-range or so powder charges. I'm still using the same cases. Sure, I've tossed out a few split necks, but still have the bulk of those cases. I'd guess some of them have 20 loadings on them.

 

[WNTFW]

ColtPythonElite,
When I first started reloading bottle neck rifle someone on the net (maybe here) told me to go out & buy new brass. That really was good advice. It eliminated a host of variables and added an element of safety.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Sorry, WNTFW...I worded it wrong. I bought 100 rounds of factory ammo and shot them thru the gun to break it in. I used a certain process specified by a gunsmith I knew to alledgedly get the most outta the gun as far as accuracy goes....Anyway, at the end of those rounds I had my current brass.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have 6X reloads on some Remington 30-06 brass with no signs of splitting. I have 7X reloads on Greek Military brass used in my Garand and all cases are fine.

The Remington brass is loaded fairly hot while the Greek brass is loaded with a fairly mild recipe.

 

[dnthmn]

Related to this, I know this isn't the most efficient use of powder, but is there any reason one couldn't buy a .300 Win Mag and load it to .308 Win or .30-06 levels and get a really long brass life?

 

[Grumulkin]

You would probably get excellent brass life at the expense of optimal accuracy and the performance people usually get a 300 Win. Mag. for.

 

[JimKirk]

haven't yet figured out the whole "partial full resize" thing for my bolt loads

It is really simple(Partial Full Length Sizing PFLS)...

Back your sizing die off the ram so it does not touch... maybe a full round or more.

Lube and size a case... try it in your chamber... if the bolt will not close ... turn the die down 1/8 turn ...repeat the process until the bolt close with just a very slight resistance. Lock your die down tight. You have now PFLS a case to fit that rifle's chamber. You may have to tweak the setting very slightly.

Be warned that such ammo may or may not fit in another rifle's chamber. If you have multiple guns of the same caliber and chose not to keep the ammo separate for each gun, you will have to size for the smaller chambered gun.

Jimmy K

 

[BoilerUP]

I've got some R-P 22.250 brass that probably has close to 10x loads on them with absolutely zero signs of wearing out...but I only use these in one particular rifle and prefer to neck-size only vs. full-length size.

 

[amlevin]

I reload my .308 brass as long as it doesn't show signs of neck splitting. I anneal after 5 reloads and neck size only using a Lee Collet die. Full length size at 10 reloads and so far my case life is over 30 cycles.

Some of the BR shooters at my club see over 40 loads from Lapua brass.

 

[gamestalker]

There is no limit as to how many times you can hand load bolt action rifle brass. It can be loaded as many times as it will hold up to. Look for a bright ring right above the head and keep checking it for the first signs of separation. Until you have separation signs such as small fracture looking marks in that area you are good to go. I load for one of the quickest brass eaters around, 7mm rem. mag. and I load max charges of RL22 and am getting 10 to 14 cycles before the brass is toast. Now the 30-06 or .270 win. it is easy to get 15 or 20 loadings from those non belted cases, especially if you start necking them.

 

[bison]

JimKirk - thx for the tips on PFLS - I'd seen similar from RCmodel - I just tried this on both my Tikka 270 and M70 30-06 (I only have one of each caliber so I'd be happy to PFLS).

When I back the sizing die out as you mention it's too far out to pop out the old primer (I'm using Lee dies if it makes a difference). If I turn the die in far enough to deprime, both chambers close just fine without any resistance that I can feel that's greater than the normal resistance of closing the bolt. I kept turning it in further and further till a normal FLR and couldnt tell any difference.

Where do I go from here?

It would be helpful to understand exactly what dimensions change throughout the process. Correct me if I'm wrong here:

- When a casing is fired, it's mouth expands and the case expands and lengthens to fit the specific chamber

- The first thing that happens when you resize is the expander goes into the mouth of the casing but doesnt contact. As the sizing progresses, the mouth is compressed and (simultaneously??) the casing is both squeezed back to original diameter and compressed to original length (I think this is the "shoulder bump"?).

- Then finally as the ram falls the expander opens the mouth slightly to exact internal dimension.

So I think the goal of PFLS is to just resize the mouth and not work the fire-formed casing otherwise, right? Makes sense. What I don't understand is what part of the process will lengthen the casing so that the bolt won't close (what I think I'm seeing).

Would simply getting a neck resizing die do the same thing? If so sounds like that might be the easiest thing to do.

Thanks!

 

[918v]

haven't yet figured out the whole "partial full resize" thing for my bolt loads so just FL resize every time (and trim of course).

Your cases will last maybe five firings that way. Partial FL sizing where you create about .001" of headspace will double or triple your case life.

It's all in the FL die adjustment: Screw it in to touch the shell holder, back it out a turn, size a case, try to chamber it (it won't), turn the die in an eigth of a turn, size the case again, try to chamber it... repeat until the bolt closes.

 

[Border Hopper]

Hi, Bison.

Without getting into the list of questions you had, I'll suggest that the "too long, not long enough to knock out the primer" query has a quick answer.

Consider using a universal depriming die, which allows you to deprime without touching the brass case. They are @ $10 and usually work for everything .22 and up.

 

[JimKirk]

Bison PM sent

Lower the decapping pin slightly ... just enough to push the primer out.

When a case is FL sized the shoulder is moved forward as the body is sized down...

Think about a long ballon filled with water ... squeeze the ballon smaller in diameter and the ends of the ballon expands longer ...in a die the ballon(case) is held to the diameter of the die and the brass shoulder end expands out towards the die top... the ram has the bottom so it can't expand that way. The brass moves forward along with shoulder until it contacts the shoulder of the die which moves the shoulder of the brass back to the postion the die allows.

Clear as mud...I know...

Jimmy K

 

[gamestalker]

When you adjust your FL die up, so as to work as little of the case as possible, use a caliper to make sure the neck is getting resized. As long as the neck is getting resized, it doesn't matter how far back you adjust the die. Regarding your decaping pin, just adjust it down more so it will push the spent primer out. Or, you can either buy a neck die or send your FL die into RCBS and have them ream it out some. They are really good people and will customize a die, at no charge last time I checked. I had them do it to a .270 win die once and all they needed was a spent shell casing to work with. Once you start necking your brass, you'll never want to go back to FL except for the now and then to set back the shoulder when chambering a round gets tight.

 

[nerinbush]

well this will work in all the case.. whether a soft case or hard case..

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