nalioth
Member
GunBugBit said:
Buy cheap - get cheap.
The cheap one is a Century junker.
Review: CZ-USA vz-58 Tactical Sporter
- Thread starter FEG
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Buy cheap - get cheap.
The cheap one is a Century junker.
Uncle Mike
Member
The VZ-58 'clone' shown in the Century add is just that....a clone of the original Czechoslovakian built VZ-58. They are made from old, military scrap VZ parts, attached to an U.S. built receiver.
The VZ-58's from 'Czechpoint' are the real deal, a Czechoslovakian made semi-auto, rifle chambered in 7.62X39.
There is also another impostor out there, it is also a Century 'parts' kit firearm and is labeled the VZ-2008.
Stay away from ANY of the Century VZ's, they are total crap! Our gov. will not let the rifles come in with any type of muzzle device on them, so IF you see a picture of a VZ-58, and it has a muzzle device, like the AK slant device on it you see in the Century add, stay away!
ALL the Czechoslovakian made VZ-58's imported into the U.S are by Czechpoint, even the ones CZ-USA were selling.
Czechpoint has decided to stop marketing the VZ-58 through CZ-USA and will be distributing the VZ-58 themselves.
So, simply said....don't buy the cheap stuff!
I have a Czechoslovakian made VZ-58, got it all decked out with all the high speed low drag swag and it is excellent, the VZ-58 will out shoot ANY AK, both in accuracy and durability!
The VZ-58's from 'Czechpoint' are the real deal, a Czechoslovakian made semi-auto, rifle chambered in 7.62X39.
There is also another impostor out there, it is also a Century 'parts' kit firearm and is labeled the VZ-2008.
Stay away from ANY of the Century VZ's, they are total crap! Our gov. will not let the rifles come in with any type of muzzle device on them, so IF you see a picture of a VZ-58, and it has a muzzle device, like the AK slant device on it you see in the Century add, stay away!
ALL the Czechoslovakian made VZ-58's imported into the U.S are by Czechpoint, even the ones CZ-USA were selling.
Czechpoint has decided to stop marketing the VZ-58 through CZ-USA and will be distributing the VZ-58 themselves.
So, simply said....don't buy the cheap stuff!
I have a Czechoslovakian made VZ-58, got it all decked out with all the high speed low drag swag and it is excellent, the VZ-58 will out shoot ANY AK, both in accuracy and durability!
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TOU
Member
Okay...I guess I'm a bit confused...so where do the ones that TG International come in? (Under $600)
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171676248
They seem to have the same markings, no?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171676248
They seem to have the same markings, no?
armoredman
Member
Yes, that's the real deal, before Czechpoint got the exclusive rights to import D-Technic, which is now known as Czech Small Arms. Mine is awesome.
TOU
Member
So getting one from them has absolutely no disadvantages over the Czechpoint besides a seriously lower price right? (Besides not having the wonderfully finished beech stocks I see CP now having.) So does TGI still have the rights to sell them or is this just over stock? Both are new?
BTW rifle looks great and I especially like that grip!
Thx!
TOU
P.S. No bayo lug but THAT seems to be the only "advantage" to the VZ-2008's. LOL
BTW rifle looks great and I especially like that grip!
Thx!
TOU
P.S. No bayo lug but THAT seems to be the only "advantage" to the VZ-2008's. LOL
Maverick223
Member
WRT the TGI VZ.58s: They are made on D-Technik receivers and with their fire control group (a problem on some clones). I just received mine last week and haven't had the opportunity to really put it through its paces yet. Test firing was very promising, accuracy was excellent (about 2MOA), that is a feat with me behind open sights. I had planned to scope it, or at least change the sight to the aperture, but now i'm not too sure. I requested the front sight with "ears" rather than a tunnel, no particular reason other than I thought it looked better.
So far I am very satisfied with mine. It may look like similar to an AK, but it is far superior IMO. Right now the only thing mine needs is a few magazines, as it only came with one.
So far I am very satisfied with mine. It may look like similar to an AK, but it is far superior IMO. Right now the only thing mine needs is a few magazines, as it only came with one.
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TOU
Member
As my Sig indicates, I have been a Czech arms fan for a lonnnnnng time, long before it was cool to be. (25+ years) My Specialty is more the Old World Brno's (bolt action RF's & CF's) but I have lusted after one of these for quite a while... long before they were available.
Can't believe it took me so long, but it looks like I just won an auction on GunBroker for one of these from TGI; $599. At that price it's tough to pass up...wished I could afford to, maybe later. About the only main difference I could see was it came with one magazine instead of Czechpoint's two. For $250 difference, I can live with that. I do wish they had them in the gray anodized phosphate finish though. I will be adding that ergo grip though and maybe eventually the same rear stock Armoredman. So where is the best place to get the appropriate magazines these days?
Now...just need to sell my NIB unconverted Saiga's....and lots of AK magazines LOL
I have already sold all my other AK & MAC's long ago including one of the original Bulgarians with a Styer "Laser cut" barrel and milled receiver. The Bulgarian was pretty awesome AK as well as fairly accurate...but HEAVY!!
Anyway, just thought I would share...thx for the input!
Can't believe it took me so long, but it looks like I just won an auction on GunBroker for one of these from TGI; $599. At that price it's tough to pass up...wished I could afford to, maybe later. About the only main difference I could see was it came with one magazine instead of Czechpoint's two. For $250 difference, I can live with that. I do wish they had them in the gray anodized phosphate finish though. I will be adding that ergo grip though and maybe eventually the same rear stock Armoredman. So where is the best place to get the appropriate magazines these days?
Now...just need to sell my NIB unconverted Saiga's....and lots of AK magazines LOL
I have already sold all my other AK & MAC's long ago including one of the original Bulgarians with a Styer "Laser cut" barrel and milled receiver. The Bulgarian was pretty awesome AK as well as fairly accurate...but HEAVY!!Anyway, just thought I would share...thx for the input!
Maverick223
Member
Great decision, TOU. If your's turns out as nice as mine, I think you will like it a lot...especially if you are the type that can tolerate an AK.
TGI builds a nice rifle, and while the finish does leave a little to be desired it seems to be tough, and like you say, it is an excellent value.
As I mentioned above I still need magazines myself, but the best place for 922r compliant magazines seems to be Czechpoint, surplus ones can be found for less (but you won't be legal per 922r). I would consider swapping the floorplates with original steel ones, but to do so you must swap a part. I plan to swap the piston in mine.
TGI builds a nice rifle, and while the finish does leave a little to be desired it seems to be tough, and like you say, it is an excellent value.
As I mentioned above I still need magazines myself, but the best place for 922r compliant magazines seems to be Czechpoint, surplus ones can be found for less (but you won't be legal per 922r). I would consider swapping the floorplates with original steel ones, but to do so you must swap a part. I plan to swap the piston in mine.
nalioth
Member
To my knowledge, TGI hasn't ever built a Vz58. They've just imported them, swaged out the mag well and added 922r parts.Maverick223 said:
I wouldn't trust TGI to build a mud ball.
Maverick223
Member
Yep, per my understanding it comes near complete, but they swap out the 922r parts for it (which constitutes the build to me). It is a D-Technik manufactured receiver, bolt, et al.
TOU, forgot to mention that if you would like to choose your front sight (ears or tunnel), talk to Greg and he will pull the one you want (if available).
nalioth
Member
So when you buy and install new wheels on your car, you're building a car?Maverick223 said:
Replacing parts is not "building".
Maverick223
Member
I think of it like I do my Saiga, Izhmash manufactured it, I built it. In my mind manufacturing it and building it (or assembling the parts) are two different processes. In this case D-Technik manufactures it, and TGI, amongst others, [partially] assembles it. Call it what you like, it is a fine rifle, and I like it.
TOU
Member
THX!
That is what I was thinking if possible. Now if you are talking a target rifle I prefer the tube style front sight. If it is on a rifle like this the tube needs to be very large like in the H&K or my Daewoo DR-200. In my mind the front sight with ears allows a bit more open sight picture as opposed to the smaller tube style. In the end it's probably all in my mind and matters little.
That is what I was thinking if possible. Now if you are talking a target rifle I prefer the tube style front sight. If it is on a rifle like this the tube needs to be very large like in the H&K or my Daewoo DR-200. In my mind the front sight with ears allows a bit more open sight picture as opposed to the smaller tube style. In the end it's probably all in my mind and matters little.
Maverick223
Member
Pretty much, the tunnel sight still has a opening at the top to allow more light in, so the difference in low light conditions is negligible. The tunnel is probably also a tiny bit stronger, but I don't plan to use mine for a hammer, so again the difference isn't worth pondering. As you said, there is a little less obstruction, but personally I just think the protector ears just look more at home on this style of carbine, so that is what I chose. All else fails you could chop the top off of the tunnel type and make ears out of it, if it was a big concern (I don't believe that i'd go that far, but it wouldn't be too difficult).
On an traditional style long rifle, dangerous game rifle, target rifle, or even an HK, I would take the tunnel style hands down, but this isn't any of the aforementioned; more like an M1 Carbine, AK, or M16, which all use ears.
TOU
Member
So Maverick..do you know if was a muzzle brake (welded of course) or a gray finish an available option from TGI like it currently is from Czechpoint?
BTW, I came across the following on another site...THIS is an answer for my questions I was looking for. I knew the CZ-USA vs. Czechpoint and suspected the rest but this confirms it. So...I withhold my final judgment until I actually receive it...and I felt fine before and figured as much... but I now feel even better about my $599 investment!
http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=26281.0
So...I am REALLY thinking that either TGI still has the ability to get the exact same rifles and add a few parts to 922 them or they are disposing of existing stock. Either way it's all good.
BTW, I came across the following on another site...THIS is an answer for my questions I was looking for. I knew the CZ-USA vs. Czechpoint and suspected the rest but this confirms it. So...I withhold my final judgment until I actually receive it...and I felt fine before and figured as much... but I now feel even better about my $599 investment!
http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=26281.0
...from Dan at Czechpoint-USA.
So...I am REALLY thinking that either TGI still has the ability to get the exact same rifles and add a few parts to 922 them or they are disposing of existing stock. Either way it's all good.
nalioth
Member
Your quote didn't say anything about TGI no longer importing them, just that CZ-USA and Czechpoint no longer get their products from TGI.TOU said:
Maverick223
Member
I don't know if either is an option. The grey finish would be nice, but I have no interest in the hearing suppressor. What I can tell you is the rifle is conspicuously marked with a "580XXXX" SN, above "vz.58", above "D-Technik", so fear not it is a factory rifle. Mine even arrived in a CZ-USA box.
TOU
Member
Maverick,
I'm good and am really looking forward to this rifle. I have even sold one of my Saiga's this weekend because of this purchase. If I can sell the other AK variant including more Saigas I will add a .223 version when available. (I will keep the converted 16" Carbine Saiga in .308 though....just too much rifle for the $399 I spent on it.
Also, I just came across some neat VZ-58 iterations you all might enjoy here:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?140348-SA-vz-58/page5
I really like the wood cheek piece on the folder, I just wonder how "foldable" it remains with it. Maybe if really thin on the one side.
I find this wood "sniper" version visually appealing, but think this would be better served if the VZ came in a 7.62x51 rather than a x39. Looks cool though.
Now these with the drum are interesting. I have heard that you can modify steel AK mags etc to fit a VZ-58 but of course this is not the case in reverse...but who cares if you have left the AK's behind anyway. LOL
I'm good and am really looking forward to this rifle. I have even sold one of my Saiga's this weekend because of this purchase. If I can sell the other AK variant including more Saigas I will add a .223 version when available. (I will keep the converted 16" Carbine Saiga in .308 though....just too much rifle for the $399 I spent on it.
Also, I just came across some neat VZ-58 iterations you all might enjoy here:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?140348-SA-vz-58/page5
I really like the wood cheek piece on the folder, I just wonder how "foldable" it remains with it. Maybe if really thin on the one side.
I find this wood "sniper" version visually appealing, but think this would be better served if the VZ came in a 7.62x51 rather than a x39. Looks cool though.
Now these with the drum are interesting. I have heard that you can modify steel AK mags etc to fit a VZ-58 but of course this is not the case in reverse...but who cares if you have left the AK's behind anyway. LOL
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Maverick223
Member
I too like it, and might have to work on something similar. It would have to be fairly thin, but about 3/8" or so should be workable.
I just wish I could find out more about the shell deflectors on the POSP style scopes. How the heck are they attached? I wouldn't mind a getting a 4x SVD optic for mine.
nalioth
Member
The wood cheekpiece does not allow folding. This isn't an issue for soldiers, as the usage of the folding stock is only for transportation (once in an operational area, the stock is opened and remains so until the operation shuts down).
You guys who are thinking of something like this need to think about drilling a hole in the stock arm and mounting a "one-sided" cheek piece that way. . .
As far as modifying AK magazines, it's far more trouble than it's worth. CZ58 mags are aluminum and AK mags are steel. The feed areas are totally different in design, and the Vz58 mags include a built-in LRBHO trigger.
You guys who are thinking of something like this need to think about drilling a hole in the stock arm and mounting a "one-sided" cheek piece that way. . .
As far as modifying AK magazines, it's far more trouble than it's worth. CZ58 mags are aluminum and AK mags are steel. The feed areas are totally different in design, and the Vz58 mags include a built-in LRBHO trigger.
Maverick223
Member
Hmm, that is an excellent idea. Have any photos or general advice that might help in constructing one?
+1, at half the weight with a BHO...what's the point? Also, FWIW the VZ.58 mag. appears to be just as bulletproof (save for the plastic floorplate in the US made version).
TOU
Member
I agree, modding AK mags is a complete non issue for me and I don't think I would ever waste the time. BUT since drums do not seem to be available for the VZ-58, I was just thinking having a modded AK drum might be nice to have around...just to have...even with out the last round hold open feature. 75 rnds is 75 rnds.
That said I have loaded up my AK 75 rnd drum ONCE...very heavy and not very practical for day to day use by any means! Maybe if stuck in a stationary position etc but otherwise I would rather have several standard mags on my person. Anyway, I ran the following pros & cons through my head of a 75 rnd converted AK drum
Pros & Cons to a 75 rnd drum
After running these through my head, I figure if the VZ-58 shoots as well as I bet...I will dump my AK mags and drums and go completely away from the AK platforms. Then just spend the money on good VZ-58 magazines & accesories...and maybe a .223 version of the VZ-58 when available.
Would love to get an 805 at some point though.
That said I have loaded up my AK 75 rnd drum ONCE...very heavy and not very practical for day to day use by any means! Maybe if stuck in a stationary position etc but otherwise I would rather have several standard mags on my person. Anyway, I ran the following pros & cons through my head of a 75 rnd converted AK drum
Pros & Cons to a 75 rnd drum
- 75 rds
- +double magazine capacity
[*]only double capacity
[*]Steel (heavier)
[*]Expensive ($100+ for drum vs $14 for mag)
[*]Unwieldy/less mobile
[*]Less ergonomic
[*]Have to adapt.
[*]Questionable about 922r compliancy
[*]Questionable reliability
[*]No last round hold open
[*]Difficult/bulky to transport on your person or store
After running these through my head, I figure if the VZ-58 shoots as well as I bet...I will dump my AK mags and drums and go completely away from the AK platforms. Then just spend the money on good VZ-58 magazines & accesories...and maybe a .223 version of the VZ-58 when available.
Would love to get an 805 at some point though.
Uncle Mike
Member
No Drum Magazine for the VZ-58 you say...
Reservoir with a capacity of 75 rounds of 7.62 x39 sa vz.58.Nabíjení magazine: After pulling out the rear bottom of the press center and rotate tray clockwise. Do každého otvoru vložte náboj,včetně rovné části. Insert into each hole round, including equal parts. Po uzavření dna otočte plochým klíčem až po 12-15 kliknutí.Kdo by nechtěl mít 2 a půl zásobníku v ruce.Zajímá-li vás spolehlivost, podívejte se na www.gunexpert.cz na některá videa, pokud natáhnete dostatečně pružinu, jedná se o spolehlivou součást zbraně.Pro AK nebo jeho verze lze použít i originální RPK zásobník, který se liší tvarem a způsobem nabíjení.RPK zásobník na rozdíl od Norinco zásobníku nelze použít pro slepé náboje, protož e originál RPK zásobník má na krycím plechu vylisovanou šroubovici, ve které jezdí konec střely a protože je slepý náboj kratší, nemá žádné délkové vymezení a uvnitř zásobníku se sype jeden přes druhý, takže pozor na to! After the conclusion of a flat bottom, turn the key to a 12-15 kliknutí.Kdo would not want to have 2 and a half tank in ruce.Zajímá if you reliability, check out www.gunexpert.cz on some videos, upload if enough spring, it is a reliable part zbraně.Pro AK or version you can use the original container RPK, which vary in shape and manner nabíjení.RPK magazine unlike Norinco container can not be used for the blanks, because e RPK original container has a cover sheet pressed spiral in by the end of the run shot, and because it is blank cartridge shorter length has no definition of a container is poured inside one another, so watch out!
Gotta order them out of Czechoslovakia, but they do exist! Norinco manufacture.
Also, this outfit has a picatinny rail dust cover for the VZ-58, pretty cool, puts the optics on the original sight plane!
NEIT/ NEA finally has their cantilever mount out, but for $145, forget it, I'll make my own!
Reservoir with a capacity of 75 rounds of 7.62 x39 sa vz.58.Nabíjení magazine: After pulling out the rear bottom of the press center and rotate tray clockwise. Do každého otvoru vložte náboj,včetně rovné části. Insert into each hole round, including equal parts. Po uzavření dna otočte plochým klíčem až po 12-15 kliknutí.Kdo by nechtěl mít 2 a půl zásobníku v ruce.Zajímá-li vás spolehlivost, podívejte se na www.gunexpert.cz na některá videa, pokud natáhnete dostatečně pružinu, jedná se o spolehlivou součást zbraně.Pro AK nebo jeho verze lze použít i originální RPK zásobník, který se liší tvarem a způsobem nabíjení.RPK zásobník na rozdíl od Norinco zásobníku nelze použít pro slepé náboje, protož e originál RPK zásobník má na krycím plechu vylisovanou šroubovici, ve které jezdí konec střely a protože je slepý náboj kratší, nemá žádné délkové vymezení a uvnitř zásobníku se sype jeden přes druhý, takže pozor na to! After the conclusion of a flat bottom, turn the key to a 12-15 kliknutí.Kdo would not want to have 2 and a half tank in ruce.Zajímá if you reliability, check out www.gunexpert.cz on some videos, upload if enough spring, it is a reliable part zbraně.Pro AK or version you can use the original container RPK, which vary in shape and manner nabíjení.RPK magazine unlike Norinco container can not be used for the blanks, because e RPK original container has a cover sheet pressed spiral in by the end of the run shot, and because it is blank cartridge shorter length has no definition of a container is poured inside one another, so watch out!
Gotta order them out of Czechoslovakia, but they do exist! Norinco manufacture.
Also, this outfit has a picatinny rail dust cover for the VZ-58, pretty cool, puts the optics on the original sight plane!
NEIT/ NEA finally has their cantilever mount out, but for $145, forget it, I'll make my own!
You guys are KILLING me... I've been wanting to pick up the Czechpoint VZ at the local shop for months now, and had finally convinced myself that the timing wasn't right... but now every day someone posts a new rave or cool photo of theirs and I start the whole process over.
Maverick223
Member
Timing is good, CZ-USA isn't importing any more, so they will get more costly as their rarity increases. Oh and BTW...
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