Jim March
Member
Folks,
Based on a query in private, I took the time to compare in detail recently purchased new Speer Gold Dot 135gr ammo in both 38+P and 357Magnum.
I can confirm that by every possible measurement, they are the same projectile. Shape and length and hollowpoint cavities are flat-out THE SAME.
The magnum flavor is marked on the box "short barrel". Per some Speer data I've seen the Magnum flavor is loaded around 250fps faster than the 38+P.
What does this mean?
Well all expanding ammo has a "velocity range" - go too fast OR slow outside of that window and you've got problems.
The ammo houses don't generally publish exact figures on the speed range because it really depends also on circumstances - the gun shooting it, the distance, the amount of clothes/armor/barriers at the target or just before, and probably more. They don't want to get specific enough to say "at 900fps this stuff WORKS", probably for legal liability reasons.
ALL ammo is a crapshoot in terms of it's net effects. That's just how it is, thank you for playing, please try again next life if it goes rodeo on ya.
That said, when we try and pick the right ammo we are minimizing risk.
So.
We've seen test data from Speer and others that show this slug expanding well at around 850fps. In 38+P, assuming your 2" barrel snubbie is in good shape and the gap isn't too sloppy you SHOULD get that, unless you've ported it.
Don't port a 38 snubbie. M'Kay? Bad idea. 357, we'll get to that in a sec
.
The pics of the Gold Dot 135s expanded from snubbies that I've seen show that it hasn't "bottomed out". In other words it can be driven faster and isn't (yet) on the edge of coming unglued.
Gold Dots in general tend to resist damage from being "overdriven" because the jacket is bonded strongly to the lead core. It's a heavy plating process versus lead just being crammed into a copper or brass jacket.
If the same 135gr projectile is sold 250fps faster by Speer, that means shooting the 38+P version in up to a 6" or even more barrel should be no problem at all. At an average of 50fps per inch of barrel speed improvement, the 38+P version from a 6" should be doing almost what the 357 version is pulling from a 2" barrel. Got a 6" barrel 38Spl able to take at least some +P fodder? Great.
The other interesting combination is, what if you have one of those 2" barrel 357s with porting?
You might lose 50fps that way, 100 worst case but unlikely.
So run the Magnum version of the 135 and what happens? We're driving a load meant for 850fps floor at 1,000-1,050 or more. This is a problem how?
Other 357Mag loads may be set up to need at least 2" barrel velocity to work correctly, but not this sucker. I would argue that the 357Mag 135gr load is THE hot ticket in a ported 2" barrel because you know you're not going to shoot it under it's floor.
Finally, let's talk about it in my gun, a 4.5" barrel 357. The magnum version is shooting tighter groups than the 38+P version. Not by THAT much, 2" groups versus 3", but it's there and repeatable. Recoil was much less stiff than with the Gold Dot 125s loaded to 1,450+ by Doubletap I tried in the same session (and which did 5" groups).
Will the magnum variant be over-driven by that barrel length?
My guesstimate is "no" but...I'm not sure.
The risk is that the nose will expand all right, but then shred and drop the bullet width back down to 36cal or a bit above minus the bullet weight missing from the front. But this isn't THAT terrible a result because you've got lots of velocity still on tap and the profile of the remaining 105gr or so projectile is flat-nosed, which isn't too shabby. And during the time period when it WAS expanded it did damage on that basis. With a Gold Dot the jacket won't usually separate, although it HAS been documented in extreme cases.
Given the accuracy on tap and the results of an "overspeed failure", I'm going to live with the risk and load the magnum flavor in that Vaq. But that's my choice and I'm telling y'all now it's problematic.
In a ported 2" 357 I am much more comfortable saying that Speer probably has a good solution going in the magnum 135gr. In a ported SP101 I don't think I'd load anything else for street carry or home defense.
The Magnum 135 may also be mild enough for those with those silly Scandium/Riboflavin things. Otherwise, as long as the barrel isn't ported run the 38+P version if you must.
Based on a query in private, I took the time to compare in detail recently purchased new Speer Gold Dot 135gr ammo in both 38+P and 357Magnum.
I can confirm that by every possible measurement, they are the same projectile. Shape and length and hollowpoint cavities are flat-out THE SAME.
The magnum flavor is marked on the box "short barrel". Per some Speer data I've seen the Magnum flavor is loaded around 250fps faster than the 38+P.
What does this mean?
Well all expanding ammo has a "velocity range" - go too fast OR slow outside of that window and you've got problems.
The ammo houses don't generally publish exact figures on the speed range because it really depends also on circumstances - the gun shooting it, the distance, the amount of clothes/armor/barriers at the target or just before, and probably more. They don't want to get specific enough to say "at 900fps this stuff WORKS", probably for legal liability reasons.
ALL ammo is a crapshoot in terms of it's net effects. That's just how it is, thank you for playing, please try again next life if it goes rodeo on ya.
That said, when we try and pick the right ammo we are minimizing risk.
So.
We've seen test data from Speer and others that show this slug expanding well at around 850fps. In 38+P, assuming your 2" barrel snubbie is in good shape and the gap isn't too sloppy you SHOULD get that, unless you've ported it.
Don't port a 38 snubbie. M'Kay? Bad idea. 357, we'll get to that in a sec
.The pics of the Gold Dot 135s expanded from snubbies that I've seen show that it hasn't "bottomed out". In other words it can be driven faster and isn't (yet) on the edge of coming unglued.
Gold Dots in general tend to resist damage from being "overdriven" because the jacket is bonded strongly to the lead core. It's a heavy plating process versus lead just being crammed into a copper or brass jacket.
If the same 135gr projectile is sold 250fps faster by Speer, that means shooting the 38+P version in up to a 6" or even more barrel should be no problem at all. At an average of 50fps per inch of barrel speed improvement, the 38+P version from a 6" should be doing almost what the 357 version is pulling from a 2" barrel. Got a 6" barrel 38Spl able to take at least some +P fodder? Great.
The other interesting combination is, what if you have one of those 2" barrel 357s with porting?
You might lose 50fps that way, 100 worst case but unlikely.
So run the Magnum version of the 135 and what happens? We're driving a load meant for 850fps floor at 1,000-1,050 or more. This is a problem how?
Other 357Mag loads may be set up to need at least 2" barrel velocity to work correctly, but not this sucker. I would argue that the 357Mag 135gr load is THE hot ticket in a ported 2" barrel because you know you're not going to shoot it under it's floor.
Finally, let's talk about it in my gun, a 4.5" barrel 357. The magnum version is shooting tighter groups than the 38+P version. Not by THAT much, 2" groups versus 3", but it's there and repeatable. Recoil was much less stiff than with the Gold Dot 125s loaded to 1,450+ by Doubletap I tried in the same session (and which did 5" groups).
Will the magnum variant be over-driven by that barrel length?
My guesstimate is "no" but...I'm not sure.
The risk is that the nose will expand all right, but then shred and drop the bullet width back down to 36cal or a bit above minus the bullet weight missing from the front. But this isn't THAT terrible a result because you've got lots of velocity still on tap and the profile of the remaining 105gr or so projectile is flat-nosed, which isn't too shabby. And during the time period when it WAS expanded it did damage on that basis. With a Gold Dot the jacket won't usually separate, although it HAS been documented in extreme cases.
Given the accuracy on tap and the results of an "overspeed failure", I'm going to live with the risk and load the magnum flavor in that Vaq. But that's my choice and I'm telling y'all now it's problematic.
In a ported 2" 357 I am much more comfortable saying that Speer probably has a good solution going in the magnum 135gr. In a ported SP101 I don't think I'd load anything else for street carry or home defense.
The Magnum 135 may also be mild enough for those with those silly Scandium/Riboflavin things
. Otherwise, as long as the barrel isn't ported run the 38+P version if you must.
