I'd like to shoot IDPA or other. I'm a revolver shooter, because it's what I shoot best. What would you recommend? I'm new at competition shooting, only at my local club which has no affiliation with anyone. Watched lots of matches, (Camp Perry is 8 mi away). I could use experience with guns, caliber, loads, and any equipment.
Revolver for Competition
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well, what revolvers do you have? For IDPA you'll need a 6-shot revolver with a 4" barrel. (You can use 7 or 8 shots wheel guns, but you're at a huge disadvantage as you can't load more than 6 which screws you up on reloads as you'll end up with one or two empty holes.)
If you have a .38/.357, (that's under 42 oz.) it plays in "Stock Service Revolver" class and can be reloaded with speed-loaders but not moon-clips. Ammo has to make 125,000 power floor, which can be an issue with some factory .38 Spc. (That's velocity times bullet weight, so 125 gr. bullet at 1,000 fps, or a 147 gr. slug at 850, etc.) Most guys are using the Safariland Comp III type speed-loaders.
If you have a S&W 625, or 646, or 610 (or any 6-shot moon-clipped gun) you play in "Enhanced Service Revolver" class. Weight of the gun can be higher, but the ammo has to make 165,000 power floor. (Ball .45 ACP is usually just about right.)
(You CAN shoot ESR with an SSR gun if you so choose, as long as your ammo makes power floor.)
You'll need a belt holster that covers the trigger and is of a standard "concealed carry" style. No space-gun skeleton holsters with crazy offsets etc. You'll need a way to carry 3 reloads as well. And a vest or other cover garment.
Personally, I'm kind of odd. I shoot both SSR and ESR with a 4" 629 shooting .44 Spc. It isn't the fastest set-up, by far, for either class, but I enjoy it anyway. Some day I'm going to get it cut for moon clips and run it with .44 Russian brass which will make it more competitive in ESR.
Other folks will have to tell you about shooting revolvers in USPSA/IPSC (it does happen...I've heard), or ICORE.
If you have more specific questions about IDPA, I'll try to answer them.
-Sam
If you have a .38/.357, (that's under 42 oz.) it plays in "Stock Service Revolver" class and can be reloaded with speed-loaders but not moon-clips. Ammo has to make 125,000 power floor, which can be an issue with some factory .38 Spc. (That's velocity times bullet weight, so 125 gr. bullet at 1,000 fps, or a 147 gr. slug at 850, etc.) Most guys are using the Safariland Comp III type speed-loaders.
If you have a S&W 625, or 646, or 610 (or any 6-shot moon-clipped gun) you play in "Enhanced Service Revolver" class. Weight of the gun can be higher, but the ammo has to make 165,000 power floor. (Ball .45 ACP is usually just about right.)
(You CAN shoot ESR with an SSR gun if you so choose, as long as your ammo makes power floor.)
You'll need a belt holster that covers the trigger and is of a standard "concealed carry" style. No space-gun skeleton holsters with crazy offsets etc. You'll need a way to carry 3 reloads as well. And a vest or other cover garment.
Personally, I'm kind of odd. I shoot both SSR and ESR with a 4" 629 shooting .44 Spc. It isn't the fastest set-up, by far, for either class, but I enjoy it anyway. Some day I'm going to get it cut for moon clips and run it with .44 Russian brass which will make it more competitive in ESR.
Other folks will have to tell you about shooting revolvers in USPSA/IPSC (it does happen...I've heard), or ICORE.
If you have more specific questions about IDPA, I'll try to answer them.
-Sam
Just some additional thoughts from an IDPA newb:
I understand many local club-level matches seem pretty chill on the PF requirement, especially for newbies like me. In my case, I show up with standard Walmart Winchester ammo and nothing is said (obvious creampuff may raise some eyebrows, though). It's been made clear to me that in actual sanctioned events, it's a different story, however.
I've been using CompIIs, and they work fine. I was interested in speeding up my reloads, though, so (in addition to a whole lot of practice) I bought a compIII. I don't know if I got a bad one, but it actually slowed my reloads because it took a fair amount of wiggling to get the rounds to release. I've since bought a jetloader, and it's terrific. I can highly recommend them.
A cover garment can be anything that conceals your rig. Even a long shirt, or a jacket, so there's no need to run out and buy a tactical vest if you don't have one.
As far as holsters, "standard concealed carry" doesn't necessarily mean tight-fitting leather with a retention strap. Kydex holsters are very popular. They may be "gamer" holsters in that I wouldn't use mine for everyday, but they retain the gun good enough for combat action shooting matches. I much prefer them over a standard carry holster. Plus, at least at my match, if the holster does have an external retention device (e.g. strap), it must be employed, which seriously slows my draw.
As Sam1911 point out, what is important is that the holster cover the trigger.
One note on speedloader pouches, though: If I understood the rules correctly, if you use an open-top pouch, they must cover the body of the speedloader.
Thus, these Blade-Techs are legal:
http://www.blade-tech.com/Speed-Loader-Pouch-with-Belt-Loop-pr-835.html
...Whereas these Safarilands are not:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=546826
I've always thought that'd be a dandy SSR rig. One could shoot some real soft handloads and still made SR PF.
My own personal rig is a (DAO) 4" 686 with Miculek grips and FO front sight. BladeTech holster and speedloader pouches, and jetloader speedloader (though I still use my compIIs are backups). I do reload, but I'm relatively new at that as well, so for now, I shoot 130gr WWB for the matches. the handloads I've worked up for SSR, though, are 4.2gr W-231 over a 158gr Berry's plated RN (1.475" OAL), with a moderate taper crimp.
With all this said, though, the ethos of IDPA is to use everyday equipment. If you already have a revolver and a holster, you're most of the way there. Just show up, be safe, and have fun!
I understand many local club-level matches seem pretty chill on the PF requirement, especially for newbies like me. In my case, I show up with standard Walmart Winchester ammo and nothing is said (obvious creampuff may raise some eyebrows, though). It's been made clear to me that in actual sanctioned events, it's a different story, however.
I've been using CompIIs, and they work fine. I was interested in speeding up my reloads, though, so (in addition to a whole lot of practice) I bought a compIII. I don't know if I got a bad one, but it actually slowed my reloads because it took a fair amount of wiggling to get the rounds to release. I've since bought a jetloader, and it's terrific. I can highly recommend them.
A cover garment can be anything that conceals your rig. Even a long shirt, or a jacket, so there's no need to run out and buy a tactical vest if you don't have one.
As far as holsters, "standard concealed carry" doesn't necessarily mean tight-fitting leather with a retention strap. Kydex holsters are very popular. They may be "gamer" holsters in that I wouldn't use mine for everyday, but they retain the gun good enough for combat action shooting matches. I much prefer them over a standard carry holster. Plus, at least at my match, if the holster does have an external retention device (e.g. strap), it must be employed, which seriously slows my draw.
As Sam1911 point out, what is important is that the holster cover the trigger.
One note on speedloader pouches, though: If I understood the rules correctly, if you use an open-top pouch, they must cover the body of the speedloader.
Thus, these Blade-Techs are legal:
http://www.blade-tech.com/Speed-Loader-Pouch-with-Belt-Loop-pr-835.html
...Whereas these Safarilands are not:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=546826
I've always thought that'd be a dandy SSR rig. One could shoot some real soft handloads and still made SR PF.
My own personal rig is a (DAO) 4" 686 with Miculek grips and FO front sight. BladeTech holster and speedloader pouches, and jetloader speedloader (though I still use my compIIs are backups). I do reload, but I'm relatively new at that as well, so for now, I shoot 130gr WWB for the matches. the handloads I've worked up for SSR, though, are 4.2gr W-231 over a 158gr Berry's plated RN (1.475" OAL), with a moderate taper crimp.
With all this said, though, the ethos of IDPA is to use everyday equipment. If you already have a revolver and a holster, you're most of the way there. Just show up, be safe, and have fun!
Thanks for the advice so far, I've learned a lot. My 4" revolver is an S&W M65. It dosen't have an adjustable rear sight, which isn't necessary on a carry gun as far as I'm concerned. I've got the usual box full of holsters, HKS speedloaders, and carrying pouches. I'm going to be in the market for a new revolver after the first of the year and would like to have what I would need to do competition. I do prefer .357/.38. I've been doing some more research, and have found a couple of clubs within reasonable driving distance. I'll check them out, and be a spectator for a while.
Jim Watson
Member
I figure you will only spectate about once before joining in. Maybe not even that, take your gear.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well if you've got a 4" 65, you don't need another gun to shoot IDPA! Just pick a load that shoots to your point of aim with the fixed sights and run it! If you didn't have a servicable revolver for this kind of competition, I was going to suggest you look at one of the used Model 64s that have been on the market pretty cheap in the last year. You're just that much ahead of the game! 
If all you've got is HKS type speedloaders, that's fine. That's what I use because Safariland doesn't make COMP IIIs for .44 guns. They're a little bit slower, but not enough to matter if you're just starting out.
Looks like you're all set, then! As Jim said, take your gear!
Good luck!
-Sam
If all you've got is HKS type speedloaders, that's fine. That's what I use because Safariland doesn't make COMP IIIs for .44 guns. They're a little bit slower, but not enough to matter if you're just starting out.
Looks like you're all set, then! As Jim said, take your gear!
Good luck!
-Sam
jmorris
Member
- Joined
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I'm with the "use what you have at first" guys, it will save you money down the road.
For SSR the Comp III is what you will want down the road for speed loaders. I like Comptac holsters but I use a homemade Kydex holster for my SSR revolver.
As for loads these are the best I have come up with so far.
SSR
.357 using 38spl brass
Note: only shoot this load from a .357; these are beyond any 38+p load
4.5g Clays
158g Berry’s
OAL 1.525"
Winchester small pistol
Velocity 845fps
ESR
45 GAP brass
3.8g VihtaVuori 310
230g Precision
OAL 1.130"
Federal small pistol
Velocity 745 fps
For SSR the Comp III is what you will want down the road for speed loaders. I like Comptac holsters but I use a homemade Kydex holster for my SSR revolver.
As for loads these are the best I have come up with so far.
SSR
.357 using 38spl brass
Note: only shoot this load from a .357; these are beyond any 38+p load
4.5g Clays
158g Berry’s
OAL 1.525"
Winchester small pistol
Velocity 845fps
ESR
45 GAP brass
3.8g VihtaVuori 310
230g Precision
OAL 1.130"
Federal small pistol
Velocity 745 fps
Great information so far. Thanks. I'm happy to hear that my 65 and speedloaders are useable. It's my favorite handgun in my small accumulation. I also am not a reloader at this point. I intend to learn this craft as well. (Can you tell I've only been in the shooting sports a short while?) How many rounds do you typically run through in a match? With the factory ammo situation the way it currently is, What should I purchase, when it can be found? I've got a whole lot more questions, but I'll start slow.
Jim Watson
Member
A typical IDPA club match will call for 60-80 rounds. The last one I set up was 66. Six stages with one string each times 18 rounds maximum per string is 108 but that is the high side.
I cannot tell you where or what to buy in the Obamanation. I handload 158 grain roundnose to the power factor and a bit over. So look for 158 grain lead roundnose if you can find them. Fiocchi, Sellier & Bellot, and strangely, the Winchester Cowboy are said to make power factor. Lesser loads may not but these days nobody is asking or chronographing at anything short of a regional or state championship. You shoot what you have available.
I cannot tell you where or what to buy in the Obamanation. I handload 158 grain roundnose to the power factor and a bit over. So look for 158 grain lead roundnose if you can find them. Fiocchi, Sellier & Bellot, and strangely, the Winchester Cowboy are said to make power factor. Lesser loads may not but these days nobody is asking or chronographing at anything short of a regional or state championship. You shoot what you have available.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Jim's pretty much spot-on. If you can find ammo, and afford it, just show up and shoot. Unless you're planning on competing in a Sanctioned match (large regional or state match) I'd be very, very surprised if you see anyone chrono-testing loads. I certainly don't do so at my monthly matches.
I'm happy if I get 20-25 shooters these days. I don't really need to find extra reasons to send them home, especially when I know how pitiful their ammo selections are at the moment.
-Sam
I'm happy if I get 20-25 shooters these days. I don't really need to find extra reasons to send them home, especially when I know how pitiful their ammo selections are at the moment.
-Sam
The club I've been shooting at has very informal steel plate and bowling pin matches, all shot with .22's for obvious reasons. Is there a rimfire class in IDPA? If not, I'll shoot what I've got, or what I can find, until I get the equipment and skills to load my own.
Jim Watson
Member
No. After all it is DEFENSE oriented and the minimum calibers are 9mm P-.38 Special.
Shoot what you can find, the local club won't care.
Jim Watson
Member
I meant what AMMUNITION he could find.
Maximum IDPA barrel length is 4", which is what the OP has.
We had a guy here whose only centerfire handgun is a 6" Taurus and we let him shoot club events, which was the limit of his ambition and he did not stay with it but a couple of seasons.
Maximum IDPA barrel length is 4", which is what the OP has.
We had a guy here whose only centerfire handgun is a 6" Taurus and we let him shoot club events, which was the limit of his ambition and he did not stay with it but a couple of seasons.
I started shooting revolvers in IDPA with a model 10 S&W, it was a great gun. The only problem was my old eyes had trouble with the sights.
I ended up with a 686 and I shoot it a good bit but lately I have been using a 2.5" 66 and don't find myself dropping back much.
I know some Master shooters who use a gun similar to yours and it does not hurt them.
Shoot what you got for a while and later you may decide to change revolvers or you might decide to stay with what you have.
Definitely bring your gear to your first match or watch the first and you will be chomping at the bit for the second match to get here.
I ended up with a 686 and I shoot it a good bit but lately I have been using a 2.5" 66 and don't find myself dropping back much.
I know some Master shooters who use a gun similar to yours and it does not hurt them.
Shoot what you got for a while and later you may decide to change revolvers or you might decide to stay with what you have.
Definitely bring your gear to your first match or watch the first and you will be chomping at the bit for the second match to get here.
smoothdraw
Member
I have a 4" 686 with 4 compIII speedloaders and New (never been used) Milt Sparks PMK holster that i can sell you if you are in a market. I want to get a 625 in 45 ACP so that i only load 1 type of ammo because i shoot CDP 1911's.
Jim Watson
Member
Sounds like a plan.
I recommend you keep some pristine brass separate for the revolver, even though loaded the same.
A burr on the rim that the auto will cram right in can bind the cylinder on the sixgun.
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