Revolver for female concealed carry?

[Grumpa72]

Long story short, my wife has a female friend who has a desire to own a pistol for personal protection. After I tried (unsuccessfully) to teach my wife the finer points of semi-auto handgun usage, I finally switched to a Colt Cobra and she loved it. Based on that experience, when my wife's friend asked me for advice I said:
1. how often will you practice?
2. how big is your hand?
3. have you any prior handgun or rifle experience?

My impression is that she won't practice more than a couple of times a year due to her job. She isn't petite but doesn't qualify as a big handed woman. And zero prior experience.

So, based on my wife's experience, I recommended that I take this friend to the range with my Colt Cobra (.38 special) and told her that I would also take my S&W CS9, a 9mm small framed pistol. As a result of my wife's annual trip (please don't tell me the obvious) to the range, I was required to reorient her to the magazine release, slide release etc. When I settled on the revolver she was like "ok, point it down range, sight properly, good trigger discipline, and fire. Right".

So, can any of you that have instructed more than one female, related or not, who can't or won't practice monthly, comment on my choice of handgun? I am thinking of one of the smaller hammerless S&Ws (would that be a J framer) or perhaps an equivalent. Money is not a problem for this friend so I am open. A local gun shop recommended a Judge and I told her to run, not walk, from that place because the salesman was talking about how the shot shell was a great defense round.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I practice and I've shot a .223 Remington rifle (my father's) which I love and I hope to get the CZ 527 FS....God willing...

A revolver is a great choice for someone with no real experience. I'd look at the SP101, S&W 60, S&W 36....I have the SP 101 DAO and Colt Detective Special...it's more up to the shooter really. My preference is a gun with a little weight that's fun to shoot and easy on the hands. What is she going to be comfortable using and practicing with is what's ultimately going to be the deciding factor for her...there's a number of good choices out there. BTW, I'm small with small hands but I'm good with pretty much anything, including my full size Berettas.

Laura

 

[goon]

Women who've shot my .357 SP-101 with .38 Special ammunition have found it pleasant enough. I don't think I'd go with a J-frame .38 unless you suggest the 3" barrel. They're great for people who are willing to practice with them, but the short sight radius makes them harder to make hits with and they do have some recoil. With lighter wadcutter loads, the SP-101 is pretty tame, and it's likely to be even more tame now that there's a 4" version available. Mine wears rubber Hogue grips, but the smaller factory grips may work well for someone with smaller hands.

Most of my experience with women and firearms comes from introducing about six female friends to shooting while I was in college (and one or two after). To date, two of them have bought their own handguns. One has a Walther P22 and the other has a S&W M-60 .357 with a 3" barrel. Both chose their own guns. I tried to steer the one who liked the Walther to go with a revolver instead, but she would not budge. Right now I'm looking for replacement magazine springs for her - she's had some failures from bad springs after a couple years of use. If we had it to do over, maybe she'd choose a Ruger LCR .22 or an SR-22. At least she listened to me on ammunition and bought good, hot CCI stuff.

 

[Armor Snail]

Well to be fair a 3" 000 buck ain't nothing to sneeze at but I do agree. There are much better choices and I'm sure that the LGS commando was talking about birdshot.

I'll go on a limb and say that even though you state that money isn't a big issue, the Armscor revolvers work very well for the money. They are a smaller frame than a K frame. More like a Colt D frame and resemble them aesthetically.
6 shots. Very decent trigger out of the box. Grips and speedloaders for a Detective Special work with it.

Also I've heard from a few sources but not 100% confirmed that if you call up Armscor in Nevada and ask for a bobbed hammer they will send you one.

I can say from experience though that the lock up is not bad and they are quite accurate.

They come in both the M200 4" and the M206 2". I've also heard of an M204 3" but have never seen one.

The weight is nice. Not an air weight but not heavy either.

The biggest downfall to some is another aesthetic thing. The finish is parkerized. So its very durable but kind of ugly but nice in a utilitarian sort of way. Like a flat black work truck.

"A steady diet of +p is not recommend but some here and there is OK" per Armscor.

 

[*Kemosabe*]

My wife experienced the same problems with a semi-auto pistol, so a revolver was in her future, I bought her a S&W 649 in .357 Mag.

I chose the stainless steel magnum in that model because it has more resale value due to the versatility of shooting either .38 Spl or .357 Mag. The ,357 is too punishing for her, but she does very well with the .38s

The partially covered hammer gives her the option of single action shooting, but not enough of the hammer is exposed to catch on anything… very versatile. I recently added Crimson Trace laser grips to it and now she is enjoying it even more.

 

[mr wack]

The wife carry's a Ruger LCR 38+p before that she carried my sp101 in 9mm albeit a little heavy for her.

 

[goon]

On the Judge, I've only shot the Poly Judge, 2.5" chamber, 2" barrel (I think).
My assessment:

It did work with shotshells, but it hated slugs. They locked the cylinder up every time. The handful of 2.5" 000 buck shot I had functioned fine.
The recoil was way more pleasant than I expected - not painful at all.
The patterning was atrocious. Nonexistent. We had a variety of shot sizes and brands because I was using up random ammo I had around, including some Federal 000 buck. Pattern... what pattern?
I didn't shoot any .45 LC out of it... because it belongs to my buddy and .45LC is expensive as a factory load. We were basically just burning up some old 2.5" .410 shells I had.

Overall, I think a woman could shoot a Judge just fine. Like I said, I was surprised at the recoil. I think the grips that Taurus uses, and possibly even a little flex in the polymer frame of the gun, made the recoil a lot more manageable than it could have been. But I think the Judge would suck as a defensive weapon. Better than a steak knife, but it's just overly large, heavy, and ungainly with no real benefit over an SP-101 (which is what I judge handguns by because it's what I carry). I wouldn't own one unless I got it dirt cheap and planned to do absolutely nothing productive with it. YMMV.

 

[Tallball]

For home defense, something with a 4" barrel. For carry it would be 2", or maybe 3.

If she can handle the recoil, 38 special is a favorite of mine. If not, 327 magnum or even 32 H&R magnum are reasonably effective. I have taught several women to shoot, and all of them could handle the 38 okay in 2" or 4". I always had them start the shooting session with a 22 revolver first.

My wife has very weak, damaged wrists and can't shoot a 38. If I am out of town she keeps our 3" 32 H&R by the bed and feels safe. The revolver and the two big dogs make a pretty decent security system.

 

[goon]

Another idea that may help (eventually) is some of the lighter 90 grain or 110 grain defense ammunition for the .38 Special. The beauty of a revolver is that if the ammo is of good quality and it fits in the chambers, chances are almost 100% that it'll just plain work. Even some of the lighter 148 grain target loads might be good for practice and maybe even for actual defense use until the lady in question can transition to something more substantial.

Like Tallball's wife, my brother also has an injury - to his right hand from many years ago. Too much recoil causes pain that radiates down his entire arm. Though .357's are out, he uses a K-frame sized .38 Special loaded with standard pressure 158 grain JHP's and has no trouble controlling it. He also doesn't have trouble with a full sized 9mm. If you go that route, many people with smaller hands have found the SIG P-225 / P6 (a single stack 9mm) to be a comfortable fit.

 

[RugerBob]

One thing I did bring up to my wife and some of her female friends is the double action/single action. How are they gonna carry and will the hammer catch on anything?
Some have never fired a gun before. At the range they couldn't hit much using double action because they had issue holding on target and pulling off target as pulling trigger back. If thats an issue, get a revolver with exposed hammer.
Most won't shoot much as they don't belong to a range. Not interested in joining either.
Most aren't interested in cleaning them either.
I did take my 1911 and limped it enough to get a stove pipe to show them if they went with semi auto, how to clear it. They were not interested at all in the semi auto.
Most were in late 40s to early 60s. Just my efforts at showing them what we had. My wife carries a 357 with 38 loads for less recoil.

 

[Plan2Live]

Grumpa – your scenario describes the ultimate quandary. Quickly and accurately shooting a double action revolver is an acquired skill, even for seasoned shooters. Tolerating the recoil of firing .38 Special rounds in a lightweight frame takes some getting used to. But even with this in mind, small, lightweight snubbies seem to draw new and female shooters like flies to rotting garbage. I teach the State required Concealed Weapons course and the majority of the women coming to class bring a .38 snubby. Few successfully qualify with those guns but the husbands and gun store salesmen keep putting them in the ladies hands and sending them to me to work miracles in one session.

I recently qualified a female shooter using my Ruger Speed Six 2.75” barrel shooting .38 Special. She blew the center out of the target and didn’t have a single round outside of the 9 ring even at the 15 yard line. She was enamored with that pistol so we went out shopping for one. Every gun store we went into during our search for a used Speed Six tried to get her to buy a S&W Airweight even after explaining that she had owned and fired one previously and hated it they still tried to sell her a J-Frame. I don’t understand that behavior.

The bottom line is if your lady friend isn’t willing to practice regularly, her pistol will probably be useless when she needs it the most, or even worse, taken away and used against her. But you already know that.

If she will acknowledge the need for practice and commit to practicing, then show her some of the heavier frame revolvers like the SP 101 or the S&W Model 60. Show them aftermarket grips which might be necessary to accommodate their hand and explain why a hammerless gun might be better when drawing from a purse or if firing from inside a purpose built carry purse.

That's the best advice I can offer.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

We went thru a devil of a time finding the right gun for my Wife. As she has aged she has become recoil sensitive and, like you, teaching her the fine points of auto pistol manipulation left her confused about why some had safeties and others had none and why the mag release was over here on this gun and over there on another...some slides and controls were just too hard to operate.

She naturally gravitated to revolvers and shot fine with our full size .357 revolvers but trying to hide/carry one? Not gonna happen on a 110 lb 5' tall woman. We got her a Ruger LCR which she really likes *but* full house or +P defense ammunition is brutal in a 13.5 oz. revolver.

Long story short we found the Glock 42 .380. Easy to rack the slide and soft shooting even with my hot hand loaded .380 ammunition. She loves it but I'd not recommend it for a person who will not train consistently because it has no external safety. Took my Wife (and myself) some time to be comfortable carrying one in the pipe with no external safety but we trained out of that.

I'd also add that snubbie revolvers are appealing to women and more conducive to carrying with minimal training and easier to conceal but, with possibly a few exceptions, a snub revolver is hard to be accurate with without a bit of training and sufficient practice. Sterilizing recoil doesn't help this either.

VooDoo

 

[Grumpa72]

Good comments and I have thought of most of them from steel vs alloy/polymer, six versus five shots, two inch barrel versus three or four, concealed carry versus purse, and I talked to her about range time and practice and then practice some more. I told her that more folks are killed with cars than firearms, but only by a little and used the analogy of a 16 year driver with a new license and needing lots of practice.

Without going into details, she has a self-described need but I am going to do the safety talk first and then have her handle some firearms at my house. BTW, no shotguns and the salesman talking shot was discussing the Judge and said something like "just spray the room with it"��. I discussed this absurd comment in detail. We also need to talk barrel length but I will have her shoot my colt Det. Special, Cobra and a four inch Colt, all in .38.

Believe it or not, my biggest hangup with the S&W hammerless is that, imo, they are sinfully ugly! I can get over that though. I think that the choice will ultimately be hers. I have thought about something like the SP101 and it's great reputation but you folks have given me some other ideas. The other thing is that I don't know her company policy on guns on the property. If that isn't allowed, then the longest barrel she can use effectively is what I will suggest since it will be a home gun.

Thanks again. Any more comments?
grumpa72

 

[moxie]

Try the Ruger LCR in .38 Special or in .22 Magnum. Hammerless. Better sights and trigger than the S&W 442/642.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Good comments and I have thought of most of them from steel vs alloy/polymer, six versus five shots, two inch barrel versus three or four, concealed carry versus purise, and I talked to her about range time and practice and then practice some more. I told her that more folks are killed with cars than firearms, but only by a little and used the analogy of a 16 year driver with a new license and needing lots of practice.

Without going into details, she has a self-described need but I am going to do the safety talk first and then have her handle some firearms at my house. BTW, no shotguns and the salesman talking shot was discussing the Judge and said something like "just spray the room with it"��. I discussed this absurd comment in detail. We also need to talk barrel length but I will have her shoot my colt Det. Special, Cobra and a four inch Colt, all in .38.

Believe it or not, my biggest hangup with the S&W hammerless is that, imo, they are sinfully ugly! I can get over that though. I think that the choice will ultimately be hers. I have thought about something like the SP101 and it's great reputation but you folks have given me some other ideas. The other thing is that I don't know her company policy on guns on the property. If that isn't allowed, then the longest barrel she can use effectively is what I will suggest since it will be a home gun.

Thanks again. Any more comments?
grumpa72

Yes that is a good choice, it is best to let her find the gun she is most comfortable/competent with and go from there.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Kleanbore]

I have arthritis and tendonitis and find the J-Frame triggers difficult.

I haven't fired a Colt Detective Special for around 45 years, but I spoke to someone yesterday who says they are pretty good in that regard.

The Cobra is mechanically identical. The DS will hold up better and will recoil less.

Do not underestimate the value of that "all-important sixth shot".

 

[BSA1]

Since a Colt Cobra works out well for your wife why not another Colt Cobra, Detective Special or Police Positive Special for her friend? My wife loves her P.P.S. with Hogue grips.

 

[goon]

Also worth noting - some new shooters (including women who are new shooters) just take to semi-autos like they were born for them. I wouldn't rule out a decent semi-auto as long as you can educate her on the potential issues that may come with them.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO, if anyone wants to carry a handgun but refuses or can't practice with it, I would recommend they don't carry. A handgun isn't a magic talisman. just having it doesn't make you safe and in reality not knowing how to use it makes it, and you dangerous.

I understand not having time to practice weekly but when someone decided to carry they should at least practice a lot in the first few weeks to become totally familiar with the gun and to start building positive muscle memory. Again, a gun is not a magic talisman.

 

[Grumpa72]

ArchAngelCD,
If your reply is suggesting that this woman isn't going to practice, then you don't have to worry. We talked about practice and she agreed that initial practice plus regular practice is a must. For the record, my wife doesn't carry except for the very few times that I need to dump my carry pistol into her purse due to my manner of dress.

Goon,
I told this friend that I would have a selection of revolvers and and semi-autos for her to dry fire and handle, followed by range time. I have seen enough woman at the range who love semi-autos so I am not excluding that. I am predisposed to new female shooters though because I see them struggle with manipulation of the semi-auto features.

We will see what happens in the coming days.

 

[ku4hx]

My wife tried several of my guns, and by tried I mean at least 50-60 rounds in each ... sometimes more:
Glock 23
Glock 19
Glock 20
Glock 27
Glock 26
Glock 30
Browning Hi-Power
Ruger KP90
Ruger GP-100
Ruger LC9s
Ruger Super Redhawk 44 Spcl to full power 44 Magum (20-25 rounds here; she just wanted the experience)
Glock 42
S&W model 36 (hated this one)
S&W 1006

She also bought a few she figured she'd like:
Walther PPK/S
Springfield XDM 45 3.8
FNS-40
Ruger SR-9
Ruger SR-9c
Ruger SR-40
Ruger LC9
Ruger KP90 (she had to have her own)
Glock 42 (she had to have her own again)
GP-100 ( ditto )

The moral of the story is over several years time she tried many and ultimately settled on a few she likes and shoots well:
Ruger SR-9 for bedside table
Glock 42
Ruger SR-9c

With the exception of the Super Redhawk and the Glock 20, she still shoots pretty much all of them from time to time. She feels she needs to keep her skill level up in case she had to grab any one of them.

But the thing is, what she initially thought she'd like was very often very different from what she ended up really liking. My suggestion for your wife's friend is try many; buy one. Many ranges rent guns if a selection is not available to her.

As far as practice goes, my wife now really enjoys shooting. But she got to that point by herself, no prodding from me did any good for over twenty years. I did make sure she understood how to work MY pistol of choice the Glock 23. She grudgingly did so but what really sealed her opinion on guns was that Friday morning an intruder crashed in our front door. She grabbed the 23, raked the slide and the guy took off. From that point on she understood and was hell bent for leather to make sure she was better prepared in the future. A lot of people just never understand the need for gun proficiency and until and unless they face a situation requiring it, they likely never will.

 

[Grumpa72]

ku4hx,
I wish I had access to a few different Glocks but I don't own any because they don't fit my hand. What i do have are two Sigs, 9 and .40, two S&Ws, also 9 and .40, plus 5 or 6 revolvers all in .38, Ruger SR22 and two very old .380s, a Colt Pocket hammerless 1908 and a Remington Model 51. The Colt is a joy to shoot, the Remington is a work of art just sitting there but with an outrageously horrible trigger. So, no .380 time for her. I won't even try my .45s due to size and weight.

I will post what happens.

 

[saltydog452]

Accessable

Just a suggestion, but it'd seem that access, especially on body access for a lady and lady wardrobe challenges would trump any round gun vs flat gun decision

salty

 

[murf]

a ruger lcr in 22lr would work here.

a lot of first-time shooters start out with the venerable 22lr (i did). recoil scares away a lot of shooters and any center fire handgun in a one pound package is going to kick a lot. the 22lr, even in a one pound gun, is fun to shoot. and "fun" is very important when it comes to getting good with a firearm.

if the firepower question comes up, teach her how to do the mozambique drill.

the female i taught to shoot carries a bersa firestorm in 22lr. she liked my bersa in 380 auto but hated the recoil. fwiw

murf

 

[Grumpa72]

Murf,
After safety basics, gun familiarization, sighting principles, we'll head to the range starting out with a Ruger SR22. At some point I'll introduce the revolver and semi-autos. We'll see how that goes but the only way that I wounderstand recommend either a .22 or .380 is if she is very recoil shy, which I don't anticipate because of her personality.