Revolver Timing...

[robinkevin]

OK so I know what timing is, its the clock work of a revolver which ensures the chamber lines up with the bore each time... but there's much I need to learn as I am getting into revolvers.

What can mess up timing? I understand there is a number of factors that can mess it up. I have even heard horror stories of LCRs going out of time after just a few boxes of ammo and splitting barrels! So whats the odds and how often does it need to be checked?

If the timing is off how can it be corrected?

Thanks

 

[mmitch]

robin,

It's kinda like chinese arithematic - it takes some studying.
It's a ballet of, cylinder ratchet/hand/cylinder stop interplay. Many of these parts require hand fitting and experienceto do so.
If you can find a mentor, that's a good start. Jerry Kuhnhausen's series of shop manuals for various brands are excellent references.
Start your research, there's a lot to know.

Mike

 

[rcmodel]

What can mess up timing?

Most common causes:
A lifetime of continuous use & normal wear of the lock-work.

Or gun abuse by snapping the cylinder closed with a flick of your wrest like an old time movie or TV detective, which can spring the crane.

Other then that, any quality name brand revolver should not go out of time through any normal use most of us would give them.

If Ruger has an LCP timing problem, they would fix it free.
And IF they have an LCR timing problem, it was probably due to "new gun design" out of spec parts there at first.

rc

 

[robinkevin]

Ok so not a normal issue unless the gun is abused or fired a ton...

I will more than likely leave timing to an expert if its that involve in correcting, but at least now I know that its not a simple fix and to stay far away from any revolvers that are not in time.

mmitch,
Mainly its just something I want to know a little more about so that I have a basic understanding of it when people talk about it. I don't plan on being a professional gun smith so just basics will do for me.
Thanks for the advice for where to get started tho if I ever do decide to go down that road.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Revolver timing is a sensitive issure. Like the other two posts have said unless a ton of shells have been shot through it, there should be no timing issues unless it has been abused or wasn't right to begin with.

My S&W model 28s have had 25years of magnum loads shot through them and they are still in time.

They are getting loose but are still accurate. I watch the forcing cone on the worst one to moniter how the timing is doing.

It you see more build up on one side then the other than the timing may be off some and it may be time for the gun to go to the gun smith.

This is an issue (for me) for smith & wesson to correct, not me! I didn't design it, even though I may understand it, I don't know the best way to correct it. It may be to replace it as it is worn out completely.

Something that can mess up the timing is if someone sticks a bullet in the forcing cone that doesn't clear the cylinder and tries to force the cylinder to turn, they will damage the cylinder locking mechanism by bending the metal and this will throw out the timing on all the chambers. This is one of a countless number of things that could have happened.

It could be that the timing was never right to begin with. It depends on who made the gun and whether or not their quality control was up to standards. Either way, this is nothing to mess with and a qualified person should be accessing the situation for you to keep you out of harms way.

TT

 

[robinkevin]

Well now I know more about it, I know that I shouldn't have to worry about this as I take very good care of all my firearms. I do plan on getting a Rough Rider .22 for plinking but if it goes out of time after thousands of rounds I think having a gunsmith to tune it up wouldn't seem too bad considering the cost of the pistol itself.

Other revolvers I will be getting is those that I inherit which would be all Colts and S&Ws and I may end up buying a used Colt of S&W or maybe a new Charter Arms (which has a Lifetime Warranty I believe)... So I dont think I will really have to worry about it.

Thanks for all the info!

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I currently have a S&W 64 (no dash) that is obviously an early stainless gun. I had the susualy two chambers "out". Many years ago, I had a Model 67 and two 66's (also early guns) that repeatedly went out of time (cylinder not coming in line to allow the bolt to slip into the bolt stop when cocked slowly). I sent them back twice, and they kept going out at about 250-300 rds. At that time, S&W was new to the metalurgy required for stainless, and they later corrected the problem, but guns do exist that are too soft in the steel to hold against the wear and tear of magnums, or maybe even +P's. It is a crapshoot with any revolver, and I repeatedly get burned with a used gun that needs "tweaked" on its timing. But, I still love revolvers, and it is the price you pay. Colts are as bad, or worse. I have given up on Colt revolvers. Ruger seems to be the best, so far, in my experiences.

 

[robinkevin]

If a revolver goes out of time however its it going to fail like the LCR I read about where I am going to shoot it and have it come apart in my hands?... I really dont want that! If its something where I will notice it before that and can get it fix then I wouldnt worry so much...

 

[rcmodel]

cylinder not coming in line to allow the bolt to slip into the bolt stop when cocked slowly

That is not a true test of timing.

If it is timed too late and fails to lock when you "creep" the hammer back slowly?

It will be timed WAY too late when you cock it at a normal speed, or use it double-action.

Methinks you are sending guns back to be fixed that aren't broke yet!

rc

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Well, you can think what you want. On S&W's, if they are out when fully cocked slowly, they are not going to slip into the bolt by letting the hammer down slowly; Colts will do that if close enough, as the way they are designed, the hand extends up a little more to assist holding the ratchet in place. However, then recoil slams the ratchet against the hand, and Colts can wear a little quicker because of this. S&W's, if cocked slow, or as usually happens when I shoot a controlled DA pull, I am "two staging" it, drawing the hammer back with a slow DA pull, and then letting it break with just a slight steady pull right at the end. If the bolt is not already locked in the bolt notch, it can fire slightly out of battery (off center, chamber to bore), and this is not good. A regular, fast DA pull is usually fine on guns that are slightly off, as cylinder momentum throws the bolt notch into the bolt, but for a precise DA shot, done as I have come to do after years of practice, a gun that is slightly off is just not cutting it. There is no reason a revolver needs to be "off"; a properly fitted action can lock up the bolt to notch before the hammer comes to full cock, OR before it lets loose from a DA pull. Normal, extended wear causes guns to go out of time, as does inferior fitting or soft parts, or all the above. Revolvers just need more maintenance than autos sometimes.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

RC, S&W figured out that the early stainless guns,the stainless metalurgy was not cutting it, so they first went to hard chrome plated carbon parts (trigger, hammer, star/ratchet,hand, & bolt?), and later just put in non-plated carbon steel parts in the stainless guns becuase of the wearing and galling problems.

 

[gamestalker]

I have a number of revolver's, Ruger's, S&W's, Taurus's and a couple Rossi's. Some are quite old and have had gobbs of full house hand loads put through them, and they are still as tight and in time as the day I aquired them. If the firearm is well cared for and not abused like already stated above, slamming the cylinder closed or spinning it and closing it, it should do just fine for a life time in my opinion.

 

[murf]

sharps, i just sent two of my s&w revolvers to my pistolsmith for the "carry-up" issue you are describing (the bolt not falling into the bolt notch when slow-cocked). i see this as a potentially dangerous condition (lead spitting or a split forcing cone). anyway, got them back good as new with no more carry-up issues.

worth the money spent imop.

murf

 

[BruceM]

"i see this as a potentially dangerous condition"

It is only dangerous if the gun is severely worn. During quick dbl. action shooting or when the hammer is cocked smartly during single action shooting, the inertia of the cylinder moving will rotate the cylinder enough to lock it even if the hand or ratchets are somewhat worn and won't carry the cylinder up mechanically. Very slow and deliberate double action shooting is a different can of worms however. Regardless, the "fix" on Smith & Wesson revolvers is pretty inexpensive so it doesn't pay to put the repair off too long.

Bruce

 

[murf]

i'm going to have to disagree with you brucem. one reason is the 'two staging it" scenario in post #10. another reason is anything that binds up the cylinder during rotation can cause the bolt to be out of the notch at full cock. for instance: the rim on cheap 22lr ammo swelling and dragging on the recoil shield, an oversized firing pin hole allowing the primer to flow back into that hole again putting drag on the recoil shield (have seen this one first-hand on a s&w l-frame 357mag). a worn out trigger spring strut that just lets the hammer fall into the trigger notch but fails to rotate the cylinder enough to let the bolt fall into the notch (my 357mag blackhawk did this).

not a common problem, surely, but again, potentially dangerous and easily cured.

murf

 

[ClemY]

There is timing and lockup. When I get a revo, new or used, I check carryup, lockup and overall smoothness of the trigger pull. Often all of them need attention.

 

[F-111 John]

I have a S&W Model 19-4 that I can easily slowly pull the trigger in DA to a point where the bolt locks up, then hold it there as long as I like before firing (within reason, of course.)

However, I also have a Dan Wesson Model 715 and a S&W Model 60 that I cannot do this to. They both lock up just at the DA hammer release point, and there isn't enough trigger travel left to hold at. I've never see evidence of bullet shaving, lead spitting, or any other issue with either of these guns, so I assume the timing is just fine with these revolvers, and it is my Model 19 that is the oddball?

 

[jad0110]

All of my revolvers (15+) lock up an d time just fine, regardless of how fast a pull the trigger. I do check for this when purchasing, so I have passed on a few guns that failed the test. Even then though, I've only seen a one revolver with a true timing issue, and a few with lockup issues. Most of the time excessive endshake and endplay of the cylinder on older, heavily abused guns are what cause me to pass on a particular gun.

Well now I know more about it, I know that I shouldn't have to worry about this as I take very good care of all my firearms. I do plan on getting a Rough Rider .22 for plinking but if it goes out of time after thousands of rounds I think having a gunsmith to tune it up wouldn't seem too bad considering the cost of the pistol itself.

Other revolvers I will be getting is those that I inherit which would be all Colts and S&Ws and I may end up buying a used Colt of S&W or maybe a new Charter Arms (which has a Lifetime Warranty I believe)... So I dont think I will really have to worry about it.

On the Heritage, they are so inexpensive new it may well be cheaper to buy another. Honestly though, a local gunsmith could probably tune it up for cheap. S&Ws will be relatively inexpensive as well. Colts? Trouble is finding a good gunsmith to work on them these days. Colts are like BMWs or Mercedes Benzes, whereas S&Ws are like Chevrolets or Fords. You frequently can't just take the former to any old shade tree mechanic, and therefore repairs are often more costly.

I've shied away from Colt mostly because of this, but I do keep my eyes open for a screaming deal on a Colt DS, Trooper, etc. Haven't seen one yet.

 

[murf]

there is a sticky at the top of this forum called "revolver checkout ....). the last post of the thread describes "carry-up" in detail. suggest you read the entire post if you want to know how to check out a new or used revolver.

murf

 

[robinkevin]

there is a sticky at the top of this forum called "revolver checkout ....). the last post of the thread describes "carry-up" in detail. suggest you read the entire post if you want to know how to check out a new or used revolver.

murf

I have read this and will check revolvers as it tells me. Seems pretty simple with locking the gun up and ease the hammer down and checking, checking for play as well. All pretty simple.

As I stated above I am just looking for ectra info and knowledge which I think I got plenty of it from this thread. Thanks everyone for being so helpful!

BTW- Thats for the comparison on revolvers to cars, really explain alot.

 

[BruceM]

"i'm going to have to disagree with you brucem. one reason is the 'two staging it" scenario in post #10."

Feel free to do so. With regard to your comment regarding reply#10; please see the second half of my response, which you disagree with. That is:

"Very slow and deliberate double action shooting is a different can of worms however."

Bruce