Revolver vs. Auto loader

[sgt127]

The eternal question, right up there with Ginger or Mary Ann. Both work, just pick the one that works best for you.

Thats it in a nutshell.

Ginger: High maintenance, prone to failure, expensive to maintain, showy, flashy, shiny and fast, invokes jealousy....Auto

Mary Ann: Solid, comfortable, pleasant. Low maintenance and reliable. Slow and steady. Always there for you, no surprises....Revolver.

 

[jeepnik]

Thats it in a nutshell.

Ginger: High maintenance, prone to failure, expensive to maintain, showy, flashy, shiny and fast, invokes jealousy....Auto

Mary Ann: Solid, comfortable, pleasant. Low maintenance and reliable. Slow and steady. Always there for you, no surprises....Revolver.

True, but let's face it, when we are young, Ginger is the object of our lust. And when we get older and more settled, we realize the Mary Ann is more comfortable. Still, even when we have settled into something comfortable, we still sometimes lust for Ginger.

The nice things about handguns is we can have both and use them at out leisure. That doesn't work so well with women.

 

[pps]

jeepnik
Member


Join Date: September 25, 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 419

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt127 View Post
Thats it in a nutshell.

Ginger: High maintenance, prone to failure, expensive to maintain, showy, flashy, shiny and fast, invokes jealousy....Auto

Mary Ann: Solid, comfortable, pleasant. Low maintenance and reliable. Slow and steady. Always there for you, no surprises....Revolver.
True, but let's face it, when we are young, Ginger is the object of our lust. And when we get older and more settled, we realize the Mary Ann is more comfortable. Still, even when we have settled into something comfortable, we still sometimes lust for Ginger.

The nice things about handguns is we can have both and use them at out leisure. That doesn't work so well with women.

Sure it does....just don't keep em in the same safe.

 

[Pyro]

I like the revolver for my own reasons.
Auto-loaders are nice too.

 

[whalerman]

Dotcha just wonder what Ginger and Mary Ann are doing right now? I'll stop right away before the Mods lock the thread. Sorry. My bad.

 

[Bikewer]

The reliability consideration has become rather moot. When I entered police work in '68, police officers universally carried revolvers. At that time, prior to the emergence of the first "wonder 9s" and other more advanced designes, it was hard to find an autopistol that would handle soft-point or hollow-point ammo reliably.
It was also hard to find good expanding bullets anyway for auto calibers.

Not the case now. I've been carrying the same Glock M23 for almost 20 years. No malfunctions. None. Ever. In fact, I don't recall a single shooting malfunction on the department. The only problem we had was with a certain brand of aftermarket night-sights... the front sight would fly off in recoil.
(since fixed)
Similar reliability with most all decent autopistols if fed quality ammunition, and they all handle modern hollow-points with aplomb.

Of course, I carried a revolver for the first 15 years of my police career as well, and never felt under-armed. My usual "off-duty" gun was a 2" .357 magnum.

Personally, I'd go with one of the new, compact autos in either 9mm or .40. Glock, Smith, Ruger... There are many others.

 

[duns]

...

In truth, I felt that the reliability of the auto finally came up to a level of what I felt was the tactical equivalency of well maintained revolvers and so I began to carry an auto.

...

Standing on the line, at the range, neither gun failed very often. Nice firm grip, dry hands, locked wrists, all is well in the world of hand-gunning. But, in the neat world of tactical hand-gunning when a deadly force confrontation erupts, we know that it is anything but a static situation or under perfect conditions!

...

At distances where the Officer could maneuver, even though it was still in close proximity to the suspect, the auto rarely seemed to jam. But, if the fight closed all the way down to contact distance, then there is the chance that the auto could turn into a single shot weapon.

On duty, I have to carry a Glock 35. And, I'm not sure I am ready to give up the general reliability, magazine capacity, and ease of shooting of a good auto for the vast majority of shooting situations. But, as a backup, I carry a 642.

...

Off duty, I find myself carrying a 3" S&W M65 more and more. I envision an off duty encounter being a very fast fight that turns into a gunfight. Bad guy rushing you with a knife, BG jumping you, knocking you down and attacking you, two guys pinning you into a corner and the fight is on. Capacity becomes secondary to utter reliability for me at that point.

...

Have you taken your favorite defense auto out to the range, held it with your left hand, bent your wrist and elbow and tried getting off as many shots as you could? Have you held it upside down, or covered your hands in soapy water and then tried to shoot through an entire magazine? Have you tried shoving it into the target to see if it gets pushed out of battery? The question then is - did it jam after the first shot? I have personally done all those things and found that the reliability of a quality auto weapon went downhill.

...

I realize that clearing an auto jam is a lot faster than clearing a revolver jam. But, that really cool "Tap-rack-bang" that you practice on the range really needs that off hand to work. If that off hand is keeping a box cutter off your throat, things go downhill in a hurry.

Best assessment of revolver vs autoloader I've ever read.

 

[Nushif]

Best assessment of revolver vs autoloader I've ever read.

I'd agree, but it's a bit lopsided.

A quality auto does still work while being severely limpwristed, my personal test for it is holding it with two fingers, while standing off to the side of it. One finger pulls the trigger, the thumb sits under the beavertail. Most still function, but the more compact varieties have given me trouble, sometimes.

I won't cover the shortcomings of an auto out of battery while contact shooting as it already has been, but to be honest when I learned really, really close quarters shooting the gun wasn't pressed up against the bad guy. It was held at my chest with the slide offside to me.

And the point I really hate to bring up is what happens when we are not in contact distance. After all it wouldn't be fair to claim "never assume anything about when we have to draw our weapon" and then to start assuming contact distance ... ammo capacity and reload speed. Sure Jerry Mirculek can reload faster in a revolver than most people with an auto. But there's only one of him. And a lot of people who reload an auto way faster than any revolver.

I will agree that autos do require more training and more upkeep on the user's end, but they do offer distinct advantages, too. To not admit that both platforms are very unique in both capabilities and deployment is intellectually dishonest. As is this everlasting "better" or "best" label we love slapping on things, simply because we prefer them.

 

[duns]

Both platforms have a very small probability of failure on demand due to parts breakage. It is such a low probability that it can probably be ignored for both platforms.

Autoloaders can have random feeding and ejection problems, without warning, especially if shooting from contact or from unusual positions. These issues may be more frequent with smaller autoloaders.

Revolvers can jam up but virtually always happens as a result of cumulative shooting and there will be warning signs -- little chance of it happening in the context of a self-defense shooting situation. (Revolvers with internal locks theoretically have additional potential to fail on demand).

Autoloaders may require a break-in period.

Autoloaders need to be verified with the ammo to be carried.

Larger autoloaders have more ammo capacity than revolvers.

Reloads are quicker and easier with autoloaders for most people.

Some people are more accurate with one platform than the other.

Ultimately, we all have to make our own assessment as to which will be the more effective platform for us as individuals. Personally, I prefer an autoloader when carrying a full size and a revolver when carrying a pocket size.

 

[Doghandler]

Love the Gun You're With

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO4oI10tF5E

 

[William Boyd]

Duns: excellent summary. Well said

 

[tomrkba]

Place your confidence in your training, not an inanimate object.

If you don't know how to run either weapon, then odds are you're going to have problems regardless of the platform carried. Clearing jams, reloading, knowing when to use or not use the sights, movement, shooting while moving, managing the police and courts, tactics, etc need to be fresh in your mind. If you are short on these skills, then go get training before you start carrying. Most training organizations will have guns available for rent. I recommend that you use one of theirs until you know what you need in a gun.

Your state's concealed carry class is not a training class. It is an informational class designed to inform you of the law and verify you have a minimum level of skill. You are not a little old lady with a 22 to 38 caliber revolver, so you may not win the day. Grannies whack many bad guys annually without shooting for thirty years, but people like us lack their level of ruthlessness, cunning, determination, and uncanny ability to shoot bad guys. Therefore, find a reputable trainer and attend his or her first two defensive handgun courses.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

One last point:

Autoloaders are more tolerant of abuse (being thrown around), less tolerant of neglect.

Revolvers are more tolerant of neglect, less tolerant of abuse.

 

[MtnSpur]

Whatever your choice make sure that your familiarity with it is absolute. Having carried multiple types of handguns over the years I finally settled on 2 that I'm as close to 99.99% positive will do what I want when I want. A Sig P239 in 9mm that has never FTF/FTE with anything I've put through it and I just seem to have a natural POA/POI using it.
Then totally opposite, a '76 Colt Detective Special. Night and day I understand but that's just the way it worked out. Who'd a thought it?

 

[Plan2Live]

It's hard to argue with the statistical analysis of a recent post regarding round count, hit ratio and multiple assailants. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=665883

If you think you will only have to engage a single attacker then 5 or 6 rounds should be fine. If you encounter two or more attackers and only have 5 or 6 rounds, then save the last round for yourself.

 

[Skribs]

See, I like Mary Ann and semi-auto's, so I'm going to say the brunette is the black pistol, and the Redhead movie star is the rosewood grips and shiny curves of the revolver. I'll stick with Mary Ann.

Personally, I feel the revolver fits these roles very well:
1) If you need a round that will not fit into a autoloader grip
2) If you want easier policing of your brass
3) If you want to use low-power rounds, such as less lethal rounds (good police option)
4) If you want to prevent the slide from hitting things (such as if you're holding something else up, like a riot shield, or if your stance is similar to Heratio from CSI: Miami)
5) If your method of carry would conceal better by removing the butt of the gun from the equation. Put the bottom of the frame/muzzle and the front of the grip on the ground, and a semi-auto will have a triangular profile, a revolver will have a dome-shaped profile. Overall, though, you can expect significantly greater capacity for the size taken up by an autoloader vs. a revolver.

For general purposes, I see the semi-auto as something that makes a lot more sense in self defense. Pocket pistols hold an additional round compared to J-frames and come in a much smaller package. Duty pistols are about the same size as your average 6-shot .357, but can hold significantly more ammunition. Even most compact pistols hold double the rounds of a GP100, and take up significantly less space.

That's just my opinion. I think both have their place, but I think most of the place of the revolver is for special purposes and not applicable to average civilian. Personally, I'll stick with semi-autos. The quality of most modern semi-automatics, especially from reputable manufacturers, is such that most of the reliability issues that revolver fans like to bring up are virtually non-existant. There are lemons on both sides, and you should obviously make sure your auto works before trusting it, but the same is true of revolvers.

 

[tomrkba]

As Bill Jordan said: Kill five of them and you'll have plenty of time to reload.

I have no idea how true this is.

Either way, train properly with every platform you carry. Place your confidence in your training, not your gear.

 

[Skribs]

Either way, train properly with every platform you carry. Place your confidence in your training, not your gear.

Training doesn't negate the differences in what gear can allow. If your choice is "good enough" gear + training or "better" gear + training, I'll take better gear + training. That doesn't just apply to this thread, but any thread where someone asks "X vs. Y" and the answer is training. That doesn't answer the question. If "training" was always the answer, we'd all be training how well we can throw rocks at the bad guy.

Auto or handgun, you'd be hard pressed to take down 5 BGs with 5 rounds.

 

[Eb1]

Auto or handgun, you'd be hard pressed to take down 5 BGs with 5 rounds.

What if they were all lined up in a single file line? Then you could use one bullet, and not have to reload.

 

[Skribs]

What if they were all lined up in a single file line? Then you could use one bullet, and not have to reload.

That bullet would have to pass through 5 men without being deflected off and hit something vital enough that it would kill them nearly instantly. I'm pretty sure Indiana Jones was just a movie (or three...there were three Indiana Jones movies).

I get that the comment was tongue-in-cheek, but it's hard enough to get one shot to stop the target with a pistol.

 

[GunnerShotz]

I'm pretty sure Indiana Jones was just a movie (or three...there were three Indiana Jones movies).

I get that the comment was tongue-in-cheek, but it's hard enough to get one shot to stop the target with a pistol.

There are four Skribs ... Kingdom of The Crystal Skull ? I'll take a rifle over a handgun any day, and even though Ginger gets my heart thumping too, Mary Ann always won it

I'd base my carry choice on situational threat levels and comfort of said carry and familiarity. Shoot BOTH auto and revolver to see which hits closest to target most often. As the perceived threat level increases, ideally, so does my round count. I'll agree that these days autos (with a little maintenance) are as reliable as revolvers. Buy, train with, and carry whichever suits you and your situation best.

 

[Skribs]

No, Gunner, there were three. That one you mentioned does not exist.

As the perceived threat level increases, ideally, so does my round count.

I brought this up in another thread, but what does the likelihood of being attacked have to do with how many rounds you want on tap if you are attacked?

 

[coalman]

If you only need 5 rounds at close range a DAO snubbie revolver is the way to go. Simple, small, light and reliable indeed. So, the real question is do you? That's always the question.

 

[Mauser lover]

No, Skribs, there are four... Just look at how much money that last one made, and maybe, if Ford lives long enough, we will get a fifth one that fixes the bitter taste left by that last one...

Anyway, as far as rounds on tap, in my state we are limited to 10 shots. I would rather have an eight shot N frame .357 mag, than I would a ten shot auto. As long as my revolver was moon clipped. Yes, I do know that an eight shot .357 mag is difficult to conceal, but you can get it in a snubby, and it is not exactly heavy...

My preference for the revolver is COMPLETELY because I like shooting them more, not because an autoloader is insufficient for the task. If I shoot a revolver more, I will become more highly proficient with it, just because I like to shoot it.

 

[Skribs]

Mauser, in that situation I'd opt for a .45 caliber auto, or maybe even spring for a .50 GI Glock (insert evil grin). Luckily, I live in a fairly Brady-disliked state, and I can have as many rounds as I can carry.