Revolver wad/charge/history question

[Theseus]

I have a Navy Arms (Pietta) 1851 Navy in .36 cal. I've had it for about 20 years, but only used it a few times and am planning on getting back into blackpowder shooting more now.

From what I can see, the recommended charge for this is 20-25 gr of FFFg (black powder or Pyrodex, etc.). In the past, I shot it with 30 gr without a problem, but not much, and I'm happy to use the lower charge. But it appears that the the ball won't seat on the lower charge -- at least using the ram on the pistol -- and so it will leave a powder/ball gap.

So the common/recommended response to that is to use an over-powder wad to take up the slack. Fine, but ...

Surely in the "old days" (when these things were actually used), shooters didn't use wads The manual of arms makes no mention of a wad in loading the revolver. So what -- historically -- did people do? My guess is that they just loaded it with whatever charge they liked, seated the ball as far as they could, slapped some bear grease over the top of the ball (if they had the time and inclination to do this), and went on their way. I imagine that while reloading in the heat of battle, they did little more than dump charge, seat ball, and go for it.

So why the emphasis on the wads today? Yeah, I'm sure that the old boys got less than perfect ignition and burning of the charge. So there will be some variation in muzzle velocity between shots. But is that all that's at issue? And how much difference -- as a matter of practice -- does that make? We're not talking about bench rest accuracy for these guns.

 

[mjsdwash]

I dont use them, and don't have a problem. Oversize balls seal the chamber, and I use motor oil to clean with no issues. I think wads are to replace the grease, though some people use both. I knew a guy who shot a Pietta 1851 for 15 years with .440 balls, and had several chain fires. The wads prevented the chainfires, so he used them. To be fair, the barrels say ".44 cal", and the guy who sold it to him didn't say anything about the ball size. If you like them, you can make them cheap by using a .45 case as a cutter on bulk felt, and heat up some crisco/bacon grease or anthinging else, and placing them in the pan, and cutting them out. You can probably cut a circle of felt and drop it in the pan, and cut the finished wads with the case too.

 

[Theseus]

Yeah. I looked at the wad-making process and decided that at this time in my life it wasn't something I wanted to devote time to. The balls for the .36 are .375". I'm a little skeptical about any chainfires happening, even without grease over them. But best to be cautious, I suppose. While everyone warns of chainfires, I'm not sure how many verified instances of these there are with properly sized pure lead balls. Mine get lead shaved off them as their seated.

 

[rodwha]

My father had a chainfire while at the range with me. He used wads and properly fitting balls.

I've been considering trying felt wads to bring my projectiles up close to the mouth to see if it improves the accuracy as many match shooters claim.

My loads (.44/.45 cals) aren't for absolute accuracy but for hunting so I use a more energetic powder with cast boolits and what I've found to be useful and more accurate (30 grns in my NMA and 35 grns in my ROA), and this still leaves plenty of room, maybe enough for two wads.

Punching wads and making Gatofeo's lube is easy and doesn't take too much time, not to mention very cheap in comparison.

 

[Crawdad1]

Here is a box of 'cartridges' they would have used in civilian and military. As you can see the paper cartridges would have made it easier to reload. The problem as I see is that there is no detailed first hand accounts of people reloading these weapons at least none I can find. This box was probably carried in a coat pocket or in a possibles' bag.

This box comes compete with percussion caps.

 

[Oohrah!]

Your powder charges are too big. For that pistol, 17-20 grs is the max recommended for Pyrodex P, and that's if it is not a brasser.

Also don't know why you can't get a full ram, there should be no issue with a .375 soft lead ball.

Have fun!

 

[Theseus]

The soft lead ball has nothing to do with it. It's the length of the rod.

 

[Crawdad1]

What he's saying is that 20 grains of powder should be more than adequate to fill that chamber up on a 51 Navy. It does with mine.

 

[Fingers McGee]

Original Civil War .36 cal paper cartridges - that there were millions of made - used anywhere from 12 to 21 grains of fine powder. 20 -25 grans should pose no problem.

This post might be of interest to you

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=133.msg485#msg485

 

[LonesomePigeon]

It depends on what powder measure you're using. Some throw a short charge. The spouts that attach to the flask in 15, 20 and 25 grains equal about 20, 26 and 32 grains in my small pistol powder measure.

 

[Theseus]

Yes, your right. I'd been going on "some things I read" (undependable as usual), and finally did the measurements. With a 25 grain charge, the ball should definitely seat on the powder (with some compression). If it doesn't quite seat on a 20 grain charge, then it's sufficiently close not to matter.

Thanks for clearing this up for me.