Reweld horror stories Post 'em here.

[heviarti]

So... Anybody got a reweld horror story? Not the 'JBTs from ATF come and took my reweld M14 that was semi only and had as much chance of rock and roll as a eunuch has of impregnating a post-menopausal woman' stories, nor the 'my reweld don't shoot straight' stories... I'm talking the 'my reweld said ker-fark it and is two pieces now' stories.
I don't know that I've heard of one blowing up... but if someone's had it happen I'd like to hear. it would be interesting to compare the failure rate to the incidence of catastrophic failure in unaltered pieces.

 

[skidooman603]

You take ur meds today?

 

[HoosierQ]

What in the world is a re-weld?

 

[highorder]

Some military rifles, notably M1 rifles, were demilled by cutting the receivers in half. Some enterprising folks welded these (mismatched) halves together and assembled them with parts kits to make complete rifles.

Part of the problem is the intricate lines and curves on the M1 receiver don't lend themselves well to reliable function after being welded askew.

I've seen them, never fired one, and never spoke to anyone with firsthand experience.

 

[marktx]

I saw a nice BM59 that after close inspection turned out to be a reweld..... I really wanted it but couldn't justify paying $2500 for a gun that is of questionable safety. Haven't seen any other rewelds.

 

[heviarti]

You take ur meds today?

Yeah, and impolite people still offend me.

I could get into a long discussion on why I think meds are not the answer and how a pilled up nation is a failing nation, but that would be OT. I wanna talk reweld and catastrophic failure.

 

[HoosierQ]

I suspect the "JBTs from the ATF" and "eunuchs impregnating menopausal women" comments may have prompted the medication remarks...perhaps. A lot wackier than we usually see here on THR.

I did learn what a re-weld is though...so that's good. I was at a gunshow and saw a whole bin of AKs cut IIRC about 7/8 of the way through the receiver...maybe it was all the way. I sort of figured they were Iraq confiscates and folks were scrounging them for parts...never figured anybody would try to fix it!

 

[skidooman603]

I am well aware of what what a re-weld is

 

[HoosierQ]

SkiDoo

It was me who didn't know what a re-weld was. I do now. I had seen the cut up AKs.

QB

 

[chestnut ridge]

It seems to me the rear half of a garand receiver serves to hold
the trigger group in position and as a mount point for the rear
sights. I don't see that it would be subject to stresses that
would cause a blow up if a weld cracked. Most of the cut receivers
I have seen are rewelded along the rails forward of the rear portion
of the receiver.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Did M60s have a lot of catastrophic failures? Seems it's fairly common to note if they've been rewelded or not when you see them for sale but I don't know if that means they were demilled at one time or if they were damaged and repaired.

 

[heviarti]

That's really kinda where I was at. If you ran a heavy load and and the bolt struck the rear of the receiver... but you'd prolly have to do it several times. welded stuff on farm equipment holds together well... and some takes more beating than that...

 

[Threeband]

It seems to me the rear half of a garand receiver serves to hold
the trigger group in position and as a mount point for the rear
sights. I don't see that it would be subject to stresses that
would cause a blow up if a weld cracked. Most of the cut receivers
I have seen are rewelded along the rails forward of the rear portion
of the receiver.

The back half of the receiver also helps keep the bolt from blowing through your right eye socket and out the back of your skull.

When rifle grenades for Garands were introduced in WWII, there was a problem with receiver heels cracking due to the increased stress from launching grenades. The fix was to dip the heels in molton lead to anneal them.* So yes, the rear of the receiver is stressed.

---------------------------

Sorry I don't have any horror stories: looks like you already know the one about the JBT from the ATF, the Eunuch, and the Post Menapausal Woman.


--------------------------

* and yes, the Poppet Valve was introduced to release the gas when using the launcher.

---------------------------

 

[Jim K]

The bolt on an M1 wouldn't "blow through" your head even if there were no back at all on the receiver; the op rod stops on the front of the receiver and the bolt stops when the op-rod stops. Only a small amount of inertia lets the bolt even touch the rear of the receiver.

As to those "rewelds." I prefer to call them "cut and welds" because "re-weld" implies they were welded together in the first place and they were not.

I have seen a number of them and fired some. I have heard of a couple that cracked at the weld, but there was no blow up. (The bolt is locked at the front; the rest of the receiver simply guides the bolt and supports the firing mechanism.)

My concern for safety of those rifles is minimal, as most work just fine. But I recommend against purchasing one if a better rifle is available. There are two reasons. The first is that those were made from receivers scrapped for a reason. They might have had something as innocuous as worn sight notches, or as bad as having been in a fire. We don't know.

The second reason is that if the jigging is not done carefully, the receiver can be shortened, negating the role of the lower bridge in retracting the firing pin and preventing its moving forward until the bolt is locked.

Jim

 

[Doug S]

I recently got a Garand, and after reading about this topic, I disassembled it today to confirm the numbers on the front of the receiver match the serial number. They did. I know that isn't a guarantee, but I somewhat comforted nonetheless. It also gave me a good opportunity to look at the other parts of the rifle for manufacturers marks.

 

[Art Eatman]

My Garand is a weld-up. Whoever did the job did it beautifully. A friend of mine had it before me; he glass-bedded it and installed Match sights. Back when my eyes were better, I could readily hold two MOA off the bench. He had put several hundred rounds through it before I bought it back in 1982. I've put maybe a couple of hundred rounds through it. I'm quite happy with it.

 

[Maverick223]

The fix was to dip the heels in molton lead to anneal them.

Well...there's your answer...just dip it in lead and it will be okay. Make sure that the same hasn't been done to the barrel as well

On a more serious note, knowing how the Garand operates and the kind of measures taken to ensure safety I wouldn't be afraid of one of these depending upon...A. the care used in the alignment, B. the competence of the welder that laid the bead, and C. the materials used including but not limited to the receiver (both halves) and the welding material used. That said, I would not buy one unless it was a a remarkable price, because the above is difficult to evaluate without destructive testing (undesirable for obvious reasons) and the value was markedly deceased in the aforementioned reassembly. Although, as an Engineer and Weldor I know that a weld with the proper materials and technique has the capacity to exceed the strength of the original member.

Another method of testing that may be more desirable would be to let a friend perform the materials and quality of workmanship testing, much like what Art did. Therefore buying it used (and fired) from a trusted source would be the only way to buy said firearm and be confident of the construction.

 

[wcwhitey]

A number of years ago I picked up a Garand that had a BM59 magazine conversion. I picked it up and it shot great, reliable although mags were expensive. I like it so much I decided to reparkerize it and re-do the stock. Upon bead blasting it the weld became obvious. I didn't have any problems with it but I never felt safe. Sold it shortly there after, full disclosure of course. Bill

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Back in the 1950s and 1960s, enterprising folks would buy cut up scrap metal from the military (de-milled M1 carbines for instance) and reweld the pieced receivers back together. Quality varied greatly. Some actually were good welds with the parts lined up. Some were weak welds, poorly aligned, badly re-finished, you name it. Rewelds had a shoddy reputation in the 1950s and 1960s surplus market.

Due to the bad publicity I avoided anything that appeared to be a "pieced together from scrap parts" so I have no re-weld horror stories.

It's kinda like avoiding all CAI builds on a Hesse receiver. Some are lemons, and some are lemonade, depending on the day of the week they were made. But when they are bad, they are horrid, like the little girl with a curl in the middle of her forehead.

 

[foghornl]

I have seen a couple of "re-welds"..both done VERY POORLY. One of the easiest ways to tell is to look in the grooves where parts move during operation. A lot of 're-welds' have mis-matched grooves.

One Shooting Budd I know insisted his was NOT a re-weld, even though the halves of the receiver did not match color-wise, and there were OBVIOUS mis-alignments on the op-rod groove. Not to mention the op-rod would dismount from the bolt every single time it was fired.

Some folks are not fans of Fulton Armory, but the Fulton website has some info on 'third-party' receivers and re-welds. Worth a read just to have the info.

 

[Art Eatman]

I've never understood why it's a problem, stipulating competency. A proper jig, correct measuring and trimming to dimension, beveling of the mating ends, and proper welding techniques. Then it's just a matter of grind-and-polish.

There is no great amount of stress on the rear of the receiver. That's all up front with the bolt-lug engagement.

 

[HoosierQ]

I have got to say this has been a fascinating thread! I would have never guessed such a thing occured...shows what I know doesn't it.

This is the kind of thread that I really like THR for. Fascinating stuff! I wish I could weld.

 

[husker]

I have to agree with Hoosier. Great thread guys. ??? for you guys. Is the Garand the only gun ? Or are there others that have the re-weld ?

 

[TexasRifleman]

Is the Garand the only gun ?

Well, there were a lot of BM59 rewelds, which is sort of a Garand with a detachable magazine.

It was more common pre-1986 because you could take a "deactivated" machinegun and weld it back together on a Form 1 and put it in the NFA database as a machinegun.

Many of the MG42's out there were re-welded, seems like there were a couple of others but I can't remember right now.

 

[heviarti]

Well... there are M14 rewelds. they're about the same as a garand. I was just trying to avoid the 'once an MG always an MG' discussion, and stick to reliability. Plus hearing about ATF *stealing* people's semi-only rifles and calling them felons offends me.