RFID tracking people has already arrived...

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ProGlock

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..and it's "for the children". Hell why am I not surprised the sheep in California are just going along with this?

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http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/education/10853541.htm?1c

School first in state to track students with radio ID tags

By Dana Hull

Mercury News


Brittan Elementary School near Yuba City is the first in California to make some of its students wear ID badges equipped with a new technology capable of tracking their movement on campus.

Described as the next generation of bar coding, the technology already is used to track automatic payment of tolls on Bay Area bridges as well as livestock, missing pets and inventory in warehouses.

For the past few weeks, Brittan's seventh- and eighth-graders have been required to wear badges with the technology -- called RFID, or radio frequency identification devices -- around their necks. School officials say the badges are scanned and used for attendance. But some parents and privacy advocates are outraged that the badges were given to students without parents' knowledge or consent.

``I never heard of RFID until my kid came home wearing it,'' said Michele Tatro, whose daughter Lauren, 13, is in eighth grade. ``They use this to track missing pets, not children. It's creepy, Big Brother and Orwellian.''

Tatro said kids now walk to and from school wearing the badges -- which are scanned as they walk through classroom doors and include photographs, names and grade level -- on lanyards around their necks. She's worried that sexual predators could read the badges and be able to call out to students by name.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and the Electronic Privacy Information Center are urging the school board to ``terminate this ill-advised test immediately.''

Earnie Graham, principal of the K-8, 600-student school and district superintendent, said parent concerns are overblown because the technology is confined to the campus.

``We're trying to stay away from the tracking word,'' said Graham, who said only a dozen parents have formally complained. ``It's just another tool to verify student attendance. And I believe this keeps kids safer. Two weeks ago we found someone on campus who wasn't supposed to be here and we knew about it because he didn't have a badge.''

At Brittan Elementary, the badges are part of a pilot program for junior high students. An ACLU representative and parents opposed to the program spoke to the school board Tuesday night, but no action was taken.

So far, the badges have been used primarily for attendance. When students pass under scanners affixed to classroom doorways, information is zapped from the RFID tag to a central server at the school. The server then transmits attendance data to teachers on handheld computers.

Scores of companies are developing RFID applications for a wide variety of uses. But its presence in schools is relatively rare.

``The question is not `Is the technology good or bad?' -- it's `How are you using it?' '' said Mark Roberti, editor of the trade publication RFID Journal. ``If you are using RFID to tag students, the question should be what is the school doing with the data.''

Brittan Elementary got the technology for free from the InCom Corporation, a small Sutter City start-up. The company's founders, Michael Dobson and Doug Ahlers, have strong ties to schools in the area: Dobson is a network administrator for the district, and Ahlers is a graphics and animation teacher at nearby Sutter Union High School.

``Parents are worried because they think that it will do things that it has no capability of doing,'' Ahlers said. ``The little badge can't be read from across the globe. It can only be read on school grounds, when the student passes under the scanner.''

Dobson and Ahlers hope to call their product InClass, and they will demonstrate it later this month at the American Association of School Administrators conference in San Antonio.

Mike Cantrell, another parent at the school, is outraged that the district implemented the pilot program without hearing from parents.

``Where do we draw the line about what is private and confidential information?'' said Cantrell, whose daughter is in seventh grade. ``We want to see this program stopped here.''
 
Sheeple....

... as well as livestock, ...
Guess that means the CA kids are livestock? Oh yeah - they are, after all, sheeple....

Strictly speaking, controlling access to the school makes more than a bit of sense, but RFID systems allow "checking" by methods that are unobtrusive. Given a list of student ID's (obtained however) and a hand-held "reader" (if not available today, real soon), the possibility, as mentioned above, of a predator accosting a student on the way to or from school is just that much greater. I don't think that's a great idea.

A photo-ID that has to be displayed would be a lot safer, even though a human would have to check 'em in and out of the building.... You don't need to put the student's name on the ID, either.... A predator with a list, in the candy store, for example, would be a lot more obvious checking ID cards....

Just my $0.02....
 
It was back in 7th grade that I built a Tesla coil. I wonder what 200+KV would do to an RFID tag . . . I probably could've provided a service to classmates. Wonder what the authorities' reaction would have been when suddenly most of the RFID tags stopped working?
 
15 seconds in the micro-oven will fix the RFID tag problem....

Never mind HOW I know, I just know :D

Or a cycle through the washer & dryer....My employer charged me $20 for wrecking my 'parking lot gate key-card'.
 
Mmmm.... electrically induced magnetic fields.... :D


It's a fair bet that the 10,000 volt Tesla coil my uncle built would do some serious field interference.
 
RFID badges are FAR from new. The problem is that likely they are the WORST way to control access to something like a school.

I've seen them used ina secure facility, but that place had smart revolving doors, and the RFID tracked your weight entering and exiting and compared to the previous day. You weighed to much or too little the revolving doors didn't let you out without security letting you out.

Tracking movement with RFID badges on campus only tracks the kids if they keep the badge on, and doesn't track people who never had a badge at all. THe problem with it is that if you trust the systm, you may have a completley false impression of the actual situation.

Adults who can be fired or be arrested and detained for not sticking with the program who are locked in a building with a lot more restrictions allowed than with a public school building will probably not try to break the system and obey it. rowdy kids on the otherhand will not.
 
You guys ever chew gum? Most of my teachers in high school didn't care, so I did. That foil wrapper can be separated from the wax paper inside it, and it carries a good bit of the adhesive with it. I had a binder mostly covered with aluminum foil by the time I graduated. It makes a fine faraday shield in a pinch :)
 
California seems to be the Bizarro state in this story...

The ACLU is fighting a good fight against a bad cause.

Most of the parents don't object to this.

What's going on?!?
 
so?

I don't see any problem with what they are doing here. It's not like they're tracking these kids when they're at McDonalds or something. I don't see a problem with being able to find out quickly if a kid was in class or wandering the hallways.
``Where do we draw the line about what is private and confidential information?'' said Cantrell, whose daughter is in seventh grade
This one confuses me. The child's name and grade level are not really private information when we're talking about a school setting. I can see how this could be an issue if they start implanting people with rfid tags, but making them wear removable badges just doesn't upset me, or maybe I'm just missing something. Maybe it would be a better compromise for everybody if their student ID's (mine included my name and grade) had a credit card type of stripe that they would scan when they entered class instead of rfid.
 
I don't see any problem with what they are doing here.
Chip...
Chip...
Chip!

Eventually even a mountain can be broken up and carted away with enough little chips.

*** - let's just toss the ole frog in that pot of cold water - shall we?
 
Ok .............

'It's not like they're tracking these kids when they're at McDonalds or something.'

And when this STARTS happening (don't kid youself - if this gets by, it WILL be expanded !! - It's for the your own good/safety of the children) will you then stand up and say 'ENOUGH' !!??

All kind of problems with this (kids forgetting badges, kids
trading badges, kids disabling badges) but first, what is
this costing and what is the justification ??

Sorry their reasons for it don't hold water. There are other
ways far less intrusive. When most of us were in school,
didn't the teachers of your regular classes know you by
sight and name fairly quickly ??. Proof of class attendence
my sweet bippy !!!

Next step will be subdermal implant of the RFID to prevent tampering (done to pets now, so what's the difference ??).

This thing needs to be stopped in its tracks NOW and
the ones pushing it (notice the connection between the
vendor and school officials ??) need to be SCARED to death to try ANYTHING like this again.

Next stop RFID's for adults and then - no RFID ? no service,
banking, credit, drivers license etc. and no need for cash (an IRS wet dream for years).

Yes I know, I'm going off the edge (tinfoil hat not tilted
correctly !!) but this stuff really frosts me.
Not to start a flame war at all, but sometime when you have
some time, set down and read Revelations - sadly,it's all coming to pass.
 
Look at it this way.

Instead of "Your papers please."

You either hear "beep" or the sound & feel of an anal probe.

Simple. :uhoh:
 
Next step will be subdermal implant of the RFID to prevent tampering (done to pets now, so what's the difference ??).

sorry, I don't think that will ever fly. no way would this country ever require that it's citizens be implanted with this stuff. If it ever does, then it won't be the U.S of A anymore. Animals are not humans, or vice versa.

Every day when I go to work, i need to pass through 2 doors where I scan my rfid access card just so I can get to my desk. They know when I get to work and when I return from lunch. Should I be protesting to management or maybe quit my job? You think maybe some day my employer might put chips in me to track my movements throughout the building to make sure I don't spend too much time in the crapper?

I'm not even gonna go there on the cost, I do agree that would be prohibitive with school funding the way it is now.

guys, have you tried that "release" foil yet? it works great and might be equally as effective for your hats. :D
 
I don't see a problem with being able to find out quickly if a kid was in class or wandering the hallways.

Well there's the first problem. It probably costs millions, and if I leave my badge in the class, or bully some other kid into holding it for me, or have my buddy do the same, it FAILS MISERABLY at it supposedly intended purpose.

It lets the school be lazy and claim "he was here, right in the record , see" without anybody having actually bothered to confirm the thing was right.

Without worrying about other issues, we have someone giving a kickback of hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars for a system that won't do anything useful. That in itself is a problem.
 
WalMart's interest in RFID spurred lots of movement. However the biggest driver in the interest in RFID is generally unknown to the public. The company peddling the technology was circling the toilet a few years ago when outta the blue none other than one Normal Manetta of Armed Pilots fame basically struck a deal to provide seed money for further development.

Secondly, the GSA (General Services Administration), the federales purchasing department, issue a memo to all federal agencies telling them to promote and implement RFID technology where ever possible.

Note there has been no pubiic debate over freedom implication of the technology. Very quietly and without fanfare we are on a course to implement the technology. I believe the term is "fait accomplis". (Yes, I am spelling challenged.
 
They're in casinos as well, now - see here for a long and interesting article. Also rather worrying, if you like your privacy...

Not suprising, but then again if you like privacy a casino is the last place you want to be. Many professional gamblers like to play games with their chips where they appear to lose by pocketing chips, then hide them and use the casino line of credit. Also groups like the ones from MIT that took the casinos for millions kept the chips in duffle bags and had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth. They got a big scare when they heard MGM was going to change their chips and not honor the old ones, and had to hire strippers to cash them in. :p

If you have a casino card and use it they already know every machine you use, how much you bet, if you won or lost and can pretty much track your whole stay - this is just a little more intrusive and typical of how they think. To sum it up "Whatever we do is ok" - and with record 40 million visitors last year I guess they're right. Even worse is the fact that the whole Strip is getting to be owned by only a few corporations so these draconian measures won't just go in one place - they'll all get 'em in short order.
 
This is nothing more than resource management - look at these kids as raw material for one of Shrubs wars. It's got to be managed...
 
Eventually we will be implanted with these things under one scheme or another. Sorry there is nothing that can be done about it.
Well I can promise you one thing, it will never happen to my children (or me). I’d pull my kids out of school if they pulled that crap at our local school.

The day is coming. Start preparing now.
 
Does anyone else find it insidious that they're using this on plyable and impressionable young children first?

How is it that electronic tagging makes for good security at a school? The
system can't detect people who aren't wearing a tag, so anyone who has nefarious purposes could simply remove the tag before threatening the children.

Next step will be subdermal implant of the RFID to prevent tampering
If anyone implants one of these things under my skin I'll cut the ????er out (assuming knives are still legal...)


Well I can promise you one thing, it will never happen to my children (or me). I’d pull my kids out of school if they pulled that crap at our local school.
Absolutely!! What's wrong with these parents?! Anyone who allows their children to be treated as property or inventory should be strung up by the toenails. Any city administrator who tries this in the public schools should be tarred and feathered.


This is nothing more than resource management - look at these kids as raw material for one of Shrubs wars. It's got to be managed...
Yeah, this is Bush's fault. Everything is Bush's fault. It doesn't matter that it was a loony local politician in California who made the fateful decision. Putting RFID on children is just another secret conspiracy to make Bush's pals at Halliburton rich. No amount of reason will make me believe otherwise!:rolleyes: (what happened to the old eye-roll smiley? it looked so much more sarcastic...)
 
Just leave the tag in your locker, that will drive the faculity NUTS! Tell them to contact your lawyer, se what they say!! :cuss: :cuss:
 
Does anyone else find it insidious that they're using this on plyable and impressionable young children first?

That's what they always do. The people who are implementing this are not dumb. They know what they're doing.
 
I can see how it can be usefull in a school. All the students and staff get an I.D. with the RFID tag and their picture on it.

Anyone that doesn't have an I.D. they don't belong there. If the teacher's readout shows more or less students in the classroom, than they see in the seats, they know there is a glitch, or someone is up to something.

If you have someone else take your ID to class for you, you're be noticed for not having an I.D., and they'll be able to find the person carrying your I.D. easily once they know you don't have it.

Do the schools have the right to monitor your children in this way? That's not an easy question to answer.

Is there a danger that this I.D. could be abused by people outside the school system when the students are on their way to or from school? Definately! The school should provide a case in which to keep the I.D. that shields it, or the parents should get one for their children if they carry any personal information about the students.

The I.D. could just report a student I.D. number when read which would be considerably less of a security risk. I'd still want my kids to be able to shield theirs, that is if I had kids and would let them attend public schools.

Next time I get my passport renewed, it's likely going to have an RFID tag, and I'm going to make sure I find a way to shield it when I'm not presenting it for identification.
 
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