RIA Broken Link Revisited

[wally]

RIA link broke at about 3500 rounds. Didn't see any unusual wear on the barrel lugs, slide lugs, barrel impact surfaces, frame impact surfaces, or slide lock lever shaft after disassembly and cleaning.

Had a spare Wilson link from a "group gripper" I'd tried and removed from my Norinco, it appeared to be the same (standard) size so I put it in. Got a bit over 800 rounds thru it on the new link in four sessions with a thourough cleaning and inspection after each ~200 round session.

Front most barrel lug is on the left side of the photo.

The slide rear most lug in on the right side of the photo.


I don't see any reason to think other than a defective link. Ivan Walcott, the Armscor rep sometimes hangs out at www.1911forum.com in the "Manufactures/Other" forum and he says he's informed the factory back in PI about problems with the links, so it seems mine's not the only RIA to break a link recently, although most others seemed to have let go at much lower round counts.

--wally.

 

[Spot77]

Thanks for the pics and the update. Having just purchased an RIA 1911, I've been following these threads pretty closely.

I've only had mine out once and put about 80 rounds through it. Haven't cleaned it yet either, but I'll certainly look closely at the link when I do.

 

[wally]

I'm wondering what's up with the countersinking on the RIA link. The Wilson is very square at both holes on both sides. Maybe it was to aid in driving the link pin in during initial assembly (was a bear to drive out) and to make it easier for the user to re-insert the slide stop after cleaning. Perhaps they've gone too deep on a batch of links and haven't left enough materrial for the necessary strength?

I'm very happy with the "sharpness" on the slide and barrel lugs and that the finish wear shows all three lugs are taking some load. Remember these photos are after 4300+ rounds thru the gun.

--wally.

 

[1911Tuner]

Lugs & Links

Could have been a defective link...and it could be that the barrel is hitting the frame bed before it hits the vertical impact surface. hard to say from here.

And...There are three barrel lugs. Your photo shows #2 and #3. #1 is the wall just forward of the chamber. It doesn't have a slot behind it. Its mating surface in the slide is the one under and just forward of the front of the ejection port...recessed about .020 inch into the slide.

How does #1 look? How about the frame bed...any bright spots or signs of impact there or on the lower barrel radius behind the rear of the lower lug? Those are signs of barrel stopping on the frame bed/bridge instead of the vertical impact surface. Stresses the link.

 

[wally]

Barrel hood is on the right side of the photo, the one of the slide is reversed from the one of the barrel so I could try and get more light inside the slide. The ejection port is down on the slide photo, the black in the upper right of the photo is the slide wall beyond the recess you mentioned.

As the slide is pushed back and the barrel dragged forward during firing, all three locking surfaces should be visible in the photos of the barrel and slide.

Here is a photo of the barrel bottom (laying on its side) and one of the frame, with the feed ramp to the right side of the photo. Pictures are better than words here.

Sorry for the poor focus on the frame photo

--wally.

 

[1911Tuner]

Pix

Looks like it's hit the bed pretty hard, wally. Correctly timed, the rear face of the lower lug should hit the vertical impact surface high on the lug just before it hits the bed. If it stops on the bed first, the barrel is still moving rearward, and the link is still...for lack of a better term...pulling on the barrel.
The link is under tensile stress, and can either stretch or break. In extreme cases, it can actually pull the lower lug loose from the barrel, or even crack the chamber....an experience that I recently had with a factory Colt.

Sometimes that can occur because the vertical impact surface is too far rearward and sometimes because the link is too short. Remember...Just because the barrel doesn't ride the link doesn't mean that it's the correct length. If the lower lug is out of spec, the link geometry can be correct for the lug...but wrong for correct unlock/linkdown timing.

 

[wally]

So what would you suggest, a longer link? Brownell's offers +.003 and +.005 and up to +.009". Or just keep shooting it and see what happens?

Of course the barrel and frame did crash together hard when the link broke and I fired one more shot before I figured out what the problem really was. Remember the photos you are seeing are 800 rounds after the link broke.

If there is a lot of tension on the link when the barrel is full down, shouldn't I be seeing some excess wear on the slide stop where it goes through the link? This appears to be a cast part and it pretty rough (under magnification) except where the link has polished it, but I can't see or feel any "edges" where the link is and isn't on the slide lock. There are 4300+ rounds on this part.

--wally.

 

[1911Tuner]

Link

I don't think I'd try a longer link at this point. Might delay unlock timing a little too long. Shoot it and keep a sharp eye peeled for lower lug separation
at the rear. Watch for unusual marks on your fired brass too. Indication of a chamber about to fail under the lug.

 

[wally]

Thanks, that's what I was leaning towards doing. Did you notice the "countersinking" of the RIA link? The Wilson link is effectvely much thicker because it mearly has the edges "broken". This is why I'm leaning to towards the idea that Armscor has let some bad links into production unitl I get other evidence to the contrary.

I've been putting 500-1500 rounds a month on this gun since I got it depending on the weather. I was thrilled because I only had to clean it twice during the first 3500 rounds, now I'm cleaning it after every outing to inspect for early signs of damage.

--wally.

 

[1911Tuner]

Countersink Link

The countersinking doesn't mean anything, and is really nothing more than a deburring operation. I usually lightly countersink new links that aren't already done so. Burrs and sharp edges can and often do lead to cracks. If the gun is within spec, the link bears very little stress anyway. It's only function is to
draw the barrel down and away from the slide after pressure has dropped.