The Nork Report

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A little dirvergent perhaps, but...

you mentioned a couple of 'machined steel extractors...snapped in half in the middle of a Series 80 cutout...whatever support was offered by the plunger...Colt OEM...etc...'.

For Series 80 owners, would you have any recommendations for replacement extractors a little less likely to snap in half? Or should I have asked this question in a different thread?

Thanx,

salty.
 
Series 80 Puller-Outers

saltydog452 said:
A little dirvergent perhaps, but...

you mentioned a couple of 'machined steel extractors...snapped in half in the middle of a Series 80 cutout...whatever support was offered by the plunger...Colt OEM...etc...'.

For Series 80 owners, would you have any recommendations for replacement extractors a little less likely to snap in half? Or should I have asked this question in a different thread?

Thanx,

salty.
Click to expand...

So far, Cylinder & Slide Series 80 type extractors seem to hold up pretty well, but I haven't really put the pressure on any to test'em...not the way the Hardcores were. Wilson Bulletproof also seems to do okay, but my test example hasn't had the round count to make a solid call. The two Hardcores
held up to two guys tryin' their level best to make'em fail...Namely, me and this one other fool. He agreed to let me install one in his gun and report the results. His round count was about 20,000. Mine was probably a little more.
In the neighborhood of 25K. All in all, not too shabby. The Series 70 types
seem to do as well over the long, rough haul as USGI extractors, and that says a lot. The relieved area on the 80 type is just too thin in the cross-section to stand up under the kind of beating that these two endured, and the plunger doesn't offer a lot of help. If it supported the area well, it wouldn't move and free up the firing pin.
 
1911Tuner said:
Lemme see...What'll I do next? Maybe I'll call in all the GI Springfields I can find. There was a blue million of'em sold around here over the last 18 months...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
How about some "cheap" Rock Island Armory 1911A1s? Vicki and I will bring ours back up to you. It would be a good excuse for another trip. BTW, Vicki's going in for hip-replacement surgury tomorrow at 5:30 am. Wish her luck.
 
Kramer, the very best of luck to Vicki.

The Nork under discussion was purchased from a gentleman who was funding an M-1 carbine purchase. If I remember correctly it was stock except for an aftermarket trigger. (Tuner, please elaborate if I’m mistaken.) The trigger pull was in the 4-5 lb. range, with a bit of creep. I took it to the kitchen table, where it was reduced to a pile of parts in about 2 seconds. Turns out the hammer hooks were in the unsafe range, and Tuner replaced it with an Ed Brown Hardcore Commander style one. This necessitated a change in grip safety, sear (a Nowlin went in,) and disconnector (I believe.) We shot it a while and were happy. Later I noticed that the web of my hand was sore, and found two slices about frame width apart. The scrape solved that. The pistol went back for few more tweaks and is now a champ. It produced groups about one half the size of those made by the young man’s 3 Glocks (a .40 and 2 9mm’s) in both my hands and his without missing a beat. (We had enjoyed a long running discussion regarding “hundred year old technology vs. modern weapon craft.”) I will admit here in a public forum that I had an above average day, and the young man was likely a bit stressed at the time.

The magazines involved were 5 of Tuner’s well worn 7 shot, flat dimpled follower models. We did check to insure they were in spec and equipped with reasonably fresh springs.

Because everything with the Nork performed flawlessly (a result of Tuner’s effort) the session was a resounding success. :D

I won’t say anything about what the Series 80 Gold Cup with 3 lb. trigger did, except that the pistol was older that the young man. :evil:
 
And what about those nutty Rock Islands? I've got a 38 super winking at me for $389 and change.....
SatCong
 
Having just acquired a Trooper III and a 969, I will have to wait on any new toys, but that new Rock Island 38 sure was making it's siren call, I'm in Music City, by the way.
SatCong
 
Twangtown

Ah! Nashtown-ville! Been there a time or three. Got a daughter who was there for a while with her job...now in Parsons, Tn.

Can't say on the RIAs...of any caliber. Haven't had enough input from enough guns to make a call. Lotta cast stuff in'em though....Cast. Not MIM.

2XS...That sounds about right. And ya say it was only twice as accurate as the tupperware??? Dangitalltoheckandgone! <----(Art's grammaw might be watchin') Bring it back! I'll hafta fix it again! :cool:

Bet he was a mite stressed when he realized that he was gettin' spanked
on the first magfull.:D :D
 
Now Tuner, don't go blamin' the pistol. You know what a lousy shot I am.:eek: Mine, with the Nork, were mostly in the black. His, with the Glocks, were mostly on the page. None of the three of us (his intended was present also) even approached your accuracy.
 
Norinco #89

One of the better examples with respect to overall fit and finish. Much better machining and less of the "Rough around the edges" syndrome on the small parts.

Trigger breaks clean at about 6.5 pounds with no creep or grittiness. Hammer hooks are .030 inch and very slightly undersquare.

Another one with less than acceptable barrel fit. Vertical engagement is
in the 65% range and only one lug holding the fort...the center lug.
Quick-check with a few good barrels indicate that there's a possibility of
using a Kart Easy-Fit to get the vertical to 75% if the frame rails are lowered.
The issue lies with vertical tolerance stacks causing the slide to sit a little too high above the slidestop pin centerline.

Retrofitting an old Colt take-out barrel from an early 91A1 let me get all three lugs hitting in the horizontal plane and maintain .908 static headspace, but vertical engagement was less than ideal at about 70% or so. Barrel end-play is pretty good at .005 inch. Not bad if all three lugs are in the game, but I'd like to have more. Lowering the rails may provide it, and the gun will be serviceable as a beater. A slightly longer link would get it close, but the quick and dirty method is usually counterproductive over the long haul...so rail lowering is the likely approach.
If that doesn't get it where I want it, it'll be a hard-fit Kart for the ol' Nork.
 
We should take up a collection and buy Tuner a digital camera for Christmass so he can post some photos.

I'd love to see photos of some of the bad examples next to good ones in these key areas along with the setup he uses to make these measurments.

Other than finish wear on the engagement surfaces, how cah you tell which lugs are taking the load?

--wally.
 
Measuring

wally said:
Other than finish wear on the engagement surfaces, how cah you tell which lugs are taking the load?

--wally.
Click to expand...

By using gauge blocks to determine the distance from the breechface to each rear lug face in the slide and comparing the distance from barrel hood to each
lug's front face...plus hood to breechface clearance if there is any. Barrels with overlength hoods are easier to work with. Just measure the distance from the face to each lug...figger out which one will hit first...face that one back until ya pick up another lug...figger the third one...set both the first two back until ya get to within .002 inch...and finish fitting the hood to a LIGHT press-fit into the slide. To bring the third lug into play, I use a few handloads with 250-grain bullets loaded to about 850 fps to seat everything. Usually gets the third non-bearing lug within kissin' distance. From there, normal use will usually bring it into the game within a couple thousand rounds.

Note that whenever the lugs are faced back to bring other lugs online, static headspace increases by a like amount, as does the final seating. Starting with a barrel that provides static headspace in excess of .912 inch makes the exercise counterproductive. You'll usually wind up close to maximum specs.
I got lucky on this one, and much prefer to order a fit-required barrel .010 inch short chambered so I can finish ream and set the headspace closer to minimum. I like about .900 as a final dimension unless the gun will do hard duty far from home...and then I like to see about .903 inch. YMMV

Now...If I can juuuuuuust get 85% or better vertical engagement, I'll use the gun for a range beater or carry piece. I'm close already...but not quite there.
Been up since 0400 workin' on it. Should know more by this afternoon.

I'm gone to beat on it with a hammer! :p Stand by...
 
Still waitin' on that book:p

Where can one get a set of slide gauges? Or how can they be made?

You do know you could avoid all these incessant questions with your book, don't you???


Anthony
 
Gauges

AnthonyRSS said:
Still waitin' on that book:p

Where can one get a set of slide gauges? Or how can they be made?

You do know you could avoid all these incessant questions with your book, don't you???


Anthony
Click to expand...

I made mine out of old take-off barrels.

Who's got time to write a book???:rolleyes:

I now have .044 inch of vertical lug engagement with two lugs hittin'. The third should fall in line soon. All it'll take is about 5 or 6 hundred rounds downrange. I know...Dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.:D

I may refit another barrel at some point. Dunno how this one's gonna do, since it's seen more than a few miles, but hey...If it'll hit the plates at 15 yards consistently, I'll use it for a while.
 
break in

Ya can at least let me help shootin' it.:D Hey,I just noticed the ejector on the other nork is loose too,what do I need to do to tighten it up-just knock out the pin and loctite it?Depending on what happens-I'll know Friday,may have a nib nork to check out in a week or two. Joe
 
kart racer said:
I just noticed the ejector on the other nork is loose too,what do I need to do to tighten it up-just knock out the pin and loctite it?
Click to expand...

That's what I had to do on my first Colt. Loc-Tite 620 did the trick and its been fine for a very long time and a lot of rounds.

--wally.
 
which side do you knock the pin out of, holding it like you were shooting it-from rt to lt or lt to rt.?
 
kart racer said:
which side do you knock the pin out of, holding it like you were shooting it-from rt to lt or lt to rt.?
Click to expand...

Boy I sure don't remember. My general strategy on driving out pins or sights is to use magnification (8X loupe) and then its usually pretty easy to tell from which side it was driven in. Then if possible I drive it out from the opposite side so when it goes back in its from the same direction as originally installed.

The theory here is pins and holes are never perfectly square and parallel so doing it this way minimizes any growth in hole dimensions. If both were perfect it wouldn't matter.

--wally.
 
I was looking at it and yeah it definitely goes lt to rt-I thought I had a punch that small but don't..I'll get one.Thanks.
 
I have owned Colts, Springfield and Norincos and I will say the frame to slide fit on the Norks are tight and the guns shoot accurately. Norks are a great 1911 to invest some money into and make real nice shooters. My biggest copmplaint about them is the finish is terrible. I had my gunsmith refinish the exterior of my Nork and then sent it off for a Melaloy finish. WOW!
I actually put a brand new Springfield barrel in mine that I had left over from a customized gun. I put aftermarket sights, trigger, bushing, extractor, mag, grip safety, mainspring housing, grips etc. and have a 1911 that would cost well over a $1,000.00 if purchased with Kimber or Colt on the slide.
Of my three heavily custom 1911's the Nork is the one I shoot the most. The Colt is a safe queen heirloom - have over $2,500.00 in it and it is just beautiful and sports Colt medallioned genuine Ivory grips . I shoots one ragged hole at 21 feet. All my 1911's have Melaloy finishes on them and I highly recommend this finish. Super hard and slick.
Norks are great guns for the money. Definitely throw the magazines away and buy 8rd. Wilson mags. They are the best IMO.
Additionally, I prefer the Novak style sights and suggest dovetailing the front sight and do away with the stake style. My Springfield and Nork have this option but unfortunately when I customized the Colt Combat Elite the stake front sights were dominting the 1911 market so that's what is installed. I did install the Bomar Adj. rear sight on the Colt and machined the back of the slide as required. This is another nice option when customizing a 1911 bullseye stye pistol.
In short, don't be afraid of Norinco's but be ready to have a few after-market options installed to end up with a reliable piece. In most case if you put aboout $150.00 in them and buy one for around $300.00 then you will have a Series 70 all steel style 1911 for under $500.00 which is a great value.
 
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