RIA, Norinco, Or Llama- which used 1911?

[schmeky]

I have had a Norinco of some type for around 15 years (or so). I love them. But for the price, a RIA Tactical is a great buy, have some of the best customer service around, and make the owners very happy overall.

You get all the bells and whistles on RIA Tactical, something you'll probaby add later on to the norc, at an added expense.

The posters are correct about the steel in a norc, it's 5100 series carbon steel, considered by many to be the most durable material ever used to build a 1911. This pic is my Norc that started as a base gun. You'll never find a custom smith to "build up" your RIA, but nearly all of them will use a Norc.

 

[Mad Magyar]

(1), soft metal (2), Llamas have been known to disassemble themselves while firing (3). Lack of availability of parts (4). high price for magazines,

1. Internet horse s#@t
2. What? Like how?
3. True...nice to have a spare Llama..
4. If you look around, they are practically given away at gun shows.

I've owned 3 Llamas in .45acp, never had problems..One, the XIA is still in the family.
The Norinco would be the best choice of the three if I was purchasing today.

 

[jcwit]

Are you sure Mad Magyar? I've been told I'm very inexperienced with firearms and do not know how to spend my money even tho I have a large collection and was able to retire at 58 yrs. Owned my first .22 rifle at age 8 in 1951.

In all honesty I believe the parts problem will come up in the future with Llams but at present is nothing to worry about.

 

[jem375]

although I have an older Llama that is my truck gun that is really nice. It has the best bluing job I have seen in many years and is accurate enough..

 

[okespe04]

If you can find a clean unmolested Nork go with that. I not RIA.

 

[CoRoMo]

...very high quality steel, no cast or MIM parts, like the RIA.

I thought RockIslands were chock full of MIM and cast parts. But if you're right, there's absolutely no reason not to buy a RIA.

The RIA is the only one, of the three, that I've ever handled and shot. It was a nice gun and ate up all the Winchester Ranger ammo we fed it. But, all of the guys here, whose knowledge I put a lot of trust in, don't speak too kindly of the RIA, and hail the Norinco to be worth two, three times what they are often priced at.

 

[surfinUSA]

This ones for JCwit.

The OP was looking for an opinion which I addressed with a little humor to post #6.

My experience with Llamas is having new cops ask for advice and after giving it to them based on what I observed. They disregard it and then proceed to buy llama ***** based on price. Then complain that they are inaccurate, unreliable and break. No surprise there. Thank god our department hasn't approved their use for on or off duty for decades.

I also adressesed Luigi's response to JC wit with a little humor. However the truth of the matter is this, Llamas are and always have been REMOVED. Maybe Mr.jcwit should look to the poll results (65-1). Regarding your personal message, based on my personal experience Taurus is REMOVED and and although Mr. jcwit has some guns in his collection worthy of owning they are not the topic of this conversation.

 

[jcwit]

If you would take the time to actually read my first post here you would see I actually recommended the RIA pistol.

What is your problem?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Mr.

 

[Snowdog]

I had a Llama MiniMax for a few years. It was reliable (which I understand isn't the norm) but wasn't particularly accurate. It also ejected shells at my forehead.
Bullets recovered during expansion/penetration tests, one side of the bullet (or shank of an expanded bullet) would have powder residue and the other side would be clean, leading some buddies to believe the barrel was less than concentric.
Though again, mine was reliable.

However, I love my RIA. I've had mine for about 4 years now and couldn't be happier. It too is reliable but also happens to be surprisingly accurate. It will feed SWC without issues and any JHP out there.
I unless I was getting the Llama for free, I would choose an RIA over a Llama without hesitation.

The only Norinco firearms I've owned were SKS carbines, so I don't have much to say about them (they all worked great though).

 

[Samkofsky]

Which 45?

The RIA and Llama metals are on the mild (soft) side and don't hold up for avid shooters, but the feedback on the Norinco in many years, working in a gun shop, was much more positive for reliability and longevity. Stay away from Llama, even the RIA is a better pistol.

 

[Snowdog]

even the RIA is a better pistol.

Yeah....

 

[luigi]

1. REMOVED.

No, I actually experienced it. see below

2. What? Like how?

I've seen the internals break and the slide come right off the frame

3. True...nice to have a spare Llama..

We agree here (well, halfway at least)

4. If you look around, they are practically given away at gunshows

I can't speak to that I don't make a habit of looking for Llama anything at gunshows.

What I shared was my experience. Based on it I will never purchase another Llamma product nor will I recommend such to others. If your experience is otherwise fine. Please note that I haven't made this personal please do me the same courtesy

 

[9mmepiphany]

I thought RockIslands were chock full of MIM and cast parts. But if you're right, there's absolutely no reason not to buy a RIA.

they are...it was poor use of punctuation on that poster's part

 

[jcwit]

Quote:
1. REMOVED.

No, I actually experienced it. see below


Quote:
2. What? Like how?

I've seen the internals break and the slide come right off the frame


Quote:
3. True...nice to have a spare Llama..

We agree here (well, halfway at least)


Quote:
4. If you look around, they are practically given away at gunshows

I can't speak to that I don't make a habit of looking for Llama anything at gunshows.

What I shared was my experience. Based on it I will never purchase another Llamma product nor will I recommend such to others. If your experience is otherwise fine. Please note that I haven't made this personal please do me the same courtesy

Lets see, you had a Llama break, and now they are all bad.

I had a Chevey break once, so I should never buy a Chevy?
I had a Ford break once, so I should never buy a Ford?
I had a VW break once, so I should never buy a VW?
Had a Dodge once, so I should never buy a Dodge?
Had a Toyota once, so I should never buy a Toyota?
Should I give up driving?
This is a good thing as I remember I got some bad gas once, think it was Shell?
I've got a Remington that broke, Now I can't buy Remington?
Got a Mossberg that needs a new firing pin, no more Mossbergs for me.

Man if I use this logic I'm sure going to save a lot of money.

 

[Baba Louie]

Should I consider the springfield mil-spec instead?

While I voted for the Nork (unmolested is best, note and watch barrel lugs for peening as noted) I got nothing bad to even think about SA's mil-spec or GI models (OK the sights on the GI are better suited for younger eyes than mine for quick, exact sight alignment) and one could say that SA has decent CS and warranty.

My nork is still shooting well and its been 16 years now, no rounded lugs or nuthin'... just an accurate shootin' commie Model of 1911A1. Wait... I did tweak the sear spring a few years back as the GS was not blocking the trigger.
Downside... no mfg warranty, CS support, yada yada (see comment about SA above)

RIA = good enough, better than some, lesser than others (maybe). It is new (even the used ones are newish) and while I don't know RIA's attitude on warranty work on used non-original owner guns, it's probably better than Norinco and Llama.

All I know about Llama is that my Dad cut one up with a torch once as he said it was downright dangerous (he was a gunsmith, it was an old gun, I have no idea what was going on inside it that sparked his ire that day) so that has had somewhat of an effect on me and my judgement on Llama products, unfair or not.

I'm really surprised that few (if any) recommended or commented on your Springfield query. Out of those 4 choices... I'd do the Springer first no questions asked.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Lets see, you had a Llama break, and now they are all bad.

it's not just one...that is a pretty commonly held view from the 80's

 

[jcwit]

This is true and even goes back earlier than the '80's. A lot of the firearm mfg. in spain was more or less a cottage industry, some parts from here, others from there. Was not condusive to quality and the bad name continued on till today. However a broad statement claiming all are bad is questionable. The later models listed like the Max I may have somewhat softer metal, I no longer have a way to test this, however I doubt is any worse then the RIA's and they seem to hold up fine for those that use them occasionally. After not all handgun owners put 1,000 rds thru their pistols a week.

BTW I have a german p 38 that has an alloy frame, and its not very hard.

 

[luigi]

However a broad statement claiming all are bad is questionable.

Never said they were all bad, said I would ever buy another one or recommend it. Apparently your self worth comes form your pssesions otherwise you wouldn't be defending your choice of a cheap gun so vigerously.

Also I can't help but notice that Norinco (not a choice I'd make either) and RIA are neck and neck while Llamma can't seem to get more than one vote even with two people defending it.

 

[jcwit]

Ya know its a funney thing with all this talk about my unending love for Llamas? No one seems able to go back to post #3 and see that I actually recommended an RIA.

This all started because I do own a Llama, along with a Kimber, Springfield, and over 100 other handgund let alone rifles, and have had no issues with it and it has been a good serviceable arm.

I'm really sorry my MaxI, and my XV in .22 cal, and my IIIA in .380 ACP cal, have not given me any problems even though I'v put a few thousand rounds thru each one. No I'm not going to take them out to the range and beat them with a hammer and see if I can destroy them to make you happy either.

If this will make you happier, I do shoot my Kimber S/S custom with match barrel much more than any of the other pistols, by my records, last season, just over 6,000 rounds.

Lugi, if you wish to discuss my self worth and my possessions take your comments elsewhere as this not the place to get personall, after all the forum is called THE HIGH ROAD, which you seem to be sliding off of.

In closing, I'm really sorry I haven't had any trouble with my Llama, and am doubly sorry you did, maybe you need to buy a Raven.

 

[hso]

Gentlemen (term used with hope),

Take your snarky snipping to PMs. It's decidedly uncivil.

Mod.