Good day, I belong to a shooting range that is handgun and shotgun only. We purchased a couple of 16" gongs last year but never installed them because a couple of the members feared that 22lr bullets would ricochet off such a heavy target if they were hit. I understand that ricochets are possible at any given time but is their worry overly inflated. We already have two plate racks-- and two Evil Roy targets of similar size, so I'm a bit confused. Any thoughts?
Ricochet??
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hammerklavier
Member
The lead bullets will shatter if they are still at or near supersonic. I assume they will hit the gong near perpendicular and not at some crazy angle.
ADKWOODSMAN
Member
Most steel targets are sloped toward the firing line at the top so lead or hardball is angled down after the steel is hit.
MutinousDoug
Member
My club sponsors monthly .22rf and pistol caliber silhouette matches. The accompanying ranges on either side hear ricochets ALL the TIME. .22rf are the most frequent but the pistol caliber Cowboy Matches are likely the most dangerous to bystanders because of the larger chunks of lead dispersed.
Thanks, all the points are valid. They will mostly be shot at from straight on up to about a 15 to twenty degree angle from a left to right position. Might have to secure a chain to the bottom of the target to hold them back a few inches at the bottom.
It's the speed, or lack there of, that causes ricochets, in my experience. The "softball" rounds some guys loaded up to reduce recoil would ricochet almost every round. The fast rounds would shatter and the fragments would travel out parallel to the target surface.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Ricochets are a strange thing.
About four years ago I was shooting a .38 Special into an earth berm 10 yards behind my 25 yard paper target.
All shots were dead on and clearly going into the earth berm.
But about every other shot, I was hearing a bullet whining off into the distance!!!
I gave up and went home.
No logical explanation other then the berm was frozen.
But at about the 90 degree angle the bullets were hitting the dug out loose dirt bank behind the target??
Didn't make a lick of sense to me how they could possibly be ricocheting over the earth berm and escaping the range.
But they were!!!!
Only thing I could think up was there must have been a frozen layer of permafrost like ice at a lesser angle behind the loose dirt the bullets were deflecting upward from??
rc
About four years ago I was shooting a .38 Special into an earth berm 10 yards behind my 25 yard paper target.
All shots were dead on and clearly going into the earth berm.
But about every other shot, I was hearing a bullet whining off into the distance!!!
I gave up and went home.
No logical explanation other then the berm was frozen.
But at about the 90 degree angle the bullets were hitting the dug out loose dirt bank behind the target??
Didn't make a lick of sense to me how they could possibly be ricocheting over the earth berm and escaping the range.
But they were!!!!
Only thing I could think up was there must have been a frozen layer of permafrost like ice at a lesser angle behind the loose dirt the bullets were deflecting upward from??
rc
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1911 guy
Member
I enjoy shooting steel, but you've got to be careful. I know a guy why lost an eye because of poor practices shooting steel.
To do it right, your targets must be angled downward to deflect ricochets into the dirt below. You must have a minimum distance appropriate for the caliber being used, both to prevent premature damage to the targets and to mitigate the risk of both ricochets and fragments hitting shooters.
Targets should be angled downward (bottom edge further away from the firing line than top edge) by about 20 degrees.
For most handgun cartridges, a minimum of 10 yards distance. More is better. For rifle, 100 yards.
Wear long sleeves and pants. Bullet jacket material will cut you, even though it's more of an nuisance than a real danger.
If you are shooting steel without impact rated glasses, you're an idiot. Re-read the first paragraph in this post.
To do it right, your targets must be angled downward to deflect ricochets into the dirt below. You must have a minimum distance appropriate for the caliber being used, both to prevent premature damage to the targets and to mitigate the risk of both ricochets and fragments hitting shooters.
Targets should be angled downward (bottom edge further away from the firing line than top edge) by about 20 degrees.
For most handgun cartridges, a minimum of 10 yards distance. More is better. For rifle, 100 yards.
Wear long sleeves and pants. Bullet jacket material will cut you, even though it's more of an nuisance than a real danger.
If you are shooting steel without impact rated glasses, you're an idiot. Re-read the first paragraph in this post.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
I think there is some confusion here. There is ricochet any time a bullet shoots steel. It may be ricochet of the whole bullet or fragments. Splatter is ricochet. Steel targets are not a bullet trap in and of themselves. Where they work is by causing a significant loss of energy and velocity. Usually what comes off the steel is only dangerous for a short distance. "Short" and "distance" are very relative, however. Of course, there are steel bullet traps, but they usually work by deflecting the round into the dirt or other trap/capture material.
The only times I have seen whole or nearly whole bullets come back at the shooter are with very low velocity revolver rounds used in a match, when shooters have been shooting a damaged steel target, or when shooters have been shooting improper steel targets (thick, but too soft, resulting in 'cupping' of the target, causing a return of the bullet).
Most of the folks I have seen injured by shooting steel targets have been injured as a result of shatter that returns from the target.
The only times I have seen whole or nearly whole bullets come back at the shooter are with very low velocity revolver rounds used in a match, when shooters have been shooting a damaged steel target, or when shooters have been shooting improper steel targets (thick, but too soft, resulting in 'cupping' of the target, causing a return of the bullet).
Most of the folks I have seen injured by shooting steel targets have been injured as a result of shatter that returns from the target.
AR-15Nutt
Member
50 yd only ?
.22LR will disintegrate on steel if 50 yd or less.
Destructo6
Member
There was, apparently, a hard spot in the berm. Could have been a rock buried in the dirt, or simply a collection of lead from shooting the same spot over and over: a "hot spot."
The advice for angling the target downward is sound, of course.
I've been hit by splatter off steel, off dirt berms, steel bullet traps, etc. Some have caused slight bleeding, most have barely left a mark. Wear your safety glasses at all times near the range, set up your targets as safely as you can and have some fun.
Angling the target downward is a good idea as stated above.
Also, if you hang a steel target so it can swing, the bullet will impart some movement on the steel. It may not be much, but it doesn't have to be to absorb kinetic energy off the bullet. IMO, you never want to hard mount a steel target such that it won't move when hit. That is encouraging stronger ricochet of bullets or fragments.
Years ago I shot at a pistol range that used steel guards to protect the clips holding the targets. Someone would always hit those guards sending fragments flying. I don't think I ever shot there without getting hit by a fragment at least once. It was never anything substantial. If you wore shorts, it would sting.
Also, if you hang a steel target so it can swing, the bullet will impart some movement on the steel. It may not be much, but it doesn't have to be to absorb kinetic energy off the bullet. IMO, you never want to hard mount a steel target such that it won't move when hit. That is encouraging stronger ricochet of bullets or fragments.
Years ago I shot at a pistol range that used steel guards to protect the clips holding the targets. Someone would always hit those guards sending fragments flying. I don't think I ever shot there without getting hit by a fragment at least once. It was never anything substantial. If you wore shorts, it would sting.
I've been hit by a 240 grain subsonic bullet that bounced off the berm at an indoor shooting range. No harm no foul but I don't shoot there any more. I don't know what their back stop construction was but it was a bit disturbing. The bullet was mangled and the tip bent bag and it stung a bit. 2nd or 3rd time Ive been hit with a ricochet.
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edwardware
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I've observed frequent ricochet of slow pistol bullets off of an oak cordwood backstop. In my experience, anything below about 800fps doesn't have the energy to cut a hole in the oak, and deforms instead, sometimes bouncing back. A piece of plywood (softer surface) in front of the oak solves this.
It's a bit disconcerting to watch the 230gr ball projectile you just sent downrange slowly tumbling it's way past your head. . .
It's a bit disconcerting to watch the 230gr ball projectile you just sent downrange slowly tumbling it's way past your head. . .
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for what its worth I visit ODNR ranges a lot in the summer and guys shooting 22lr AR and other guns at the 25yard line I can hear ricochet all the time. not sure what the heck they are hitting cause its supposed to be clean dirt and sand but at least 2-3 times I have heard it. your not allowed to shoot large calibers at the 25yard either.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
We've had silencers at my range. That has not been the case when shooting paper targets against a dirt backstop.
denton
Member
Shooting 122 grain cast cowboy action bullets out of a Marlin lever action 357 at steel plates: When you're done shooting, your bullets have been flattened to about the size of a quarter, and are lying at the base of the plate rack.
If you are shooting anything without eye protection, you're an idiot.
A range I frequent has mostly steel targets hanging from a chain. I've never heard of any injuries there. Maybe the distance is more relevant than the steel issue. The closest target is 35 yards.
But, another pistol range is all steel targets & the closest is 10 yards (falling plates). Again, never heard of any injuries & I've never been injured, except an occasional fragment causing minor injury (meaning a little bleeding). At an indoor range, my GF felt a bump on her leg & a 9mm bullet fell on the floor. Left a small bruise. Much of the velocity is lost in a ricochet. The only place a serious injury can occur is the unprotected eye.
But, another pistol range is all steel targets & the closest is 10 yards (falling plates). Again, never heard of any injuries & I've never been injured, except an occasional fragment causing minor injury (meaning a little bleeding). At an indoor range, my GF felt a bump on her leg & a 9mm bullet fell on the floor. Left a small bruise. Much of the velocity is lost in a ricochet. The only place a serious injury can occur is the unprotected eye.
Corpral_Agarn
Member
I have to agree.
At the this month's multigun match an RO got a piece of copper jacket embedded in his face just below his eye protection.
It was about an 1/8" long and he couldn't pull it out with his fingers.
Facial wound so it bled some.
He ended up having somebody yank it with some tweezers and many tries.
Eyes and Ears, Folks!
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