Riddle me this

[Kp321]

Reloading 30 Carbine is more like loading pistol rounds than rifle. The round headspaces off of the case mouth so length is critical, too short can cause misfires and too long can hang up. The taper crimp should only remove the flare enough to promote good feeding. Neck tension holds the bullet. That being said, I have reloaded 30 Carbine for 40 years and have not had to trim any brass. The chambers on the little rifles are generous and forgiving.

 

[Toprudder]

Nothing wrong with you using H110( W296). But with things being what they are today hope you have a good stash of it. I also get good results with 2400 & imr 4227 which may be easier to find. I would suggest not limiting yourself to just 1 powder. Standard loads, nice thing about the carbine (it ain't brain surgery) readily available in all manuals.
I also recommend using Hornady's old 100gr SJ. Good economical plinking bullet in the carbine. But it is my understanding that Hornady is not making them anymore. I still see them at shows and pick them up when I can. Speer has its own 100gr "plinker' and is still available. Fun gun to shoot.

I've seen, and purchased, H110 recently, and have seen W296 for sale as well, so things are getting better.

I was under the impression (don't remember exactly why) that the 100 SJ was a seasonal thing for Hornady. I have about 500 of them, glad I got them when I did.

 

[Rule3]

I don't have a manual. The data I use usually come off the web from various reload data sites.

I just do not understand or comprehend why anyone (not just the OP) would get into reloading without at least one manual??

A manual is not just a recipe book with load data. The whole front section and a lot of the back contain valuable information that any reloader needs to know,

With the amount of money spent on Presses components the price of a manual or better yet 2 or 3, is cheap and what can be learned is worth it.

 

[Sunray]

"...I don't have a manual..." Buy the Lyman book.
Tried H110 long ago, but found IMR4227 to be more accurate.
"...too short can cause misfires..." Nope. Just bad headspace. Mind you, I can't recall every needing to trim .30 Carbine either. New brass needs to be checked for length, trimmed, chamfered and deburred as required though.

 

[TimSr]

Maybe I missed it in here, but The one time I bought new 30 carbine brass (primed) it had to be resized. If you can seat the bullet with your thumb, that is a clue.

I load 30 carbine like any semi-auto pistol round, not like a bottleneck rifle cartridge. I flare and I crimp. I shoot cast so its a must.

I've never trimmed 30 carbine in 25 years of loading, but after things I've been reading, I'm curious to measure some.

 

[xxleafybugxx]

I feel like I get a lot of flack for not having a manual. Keep in mind that before I do anything I do tons of research and have been able to find a lot of good information on hornaday, Lyman, Lee, and RCBS websites. I do quite a bit of homework before I do anything regarding reloading, I just don't have an actual manual. although I'll likely be getting one soon.

when I was reloading my 45, I was able to do so with no issues based on information I gathered on the Internet as previously stated and when I do have questions I find it much more enjoyable by interacting with others to get the answer vs flipping through a book.

another question I have in regards to the 30 carbine... I seem to have all of the measurements down about right but I am still having some issues in regards to my dummy rounds. when checking my dummy rounds to make sure they chamber correctly I noticed that each time the action puts the round into battery the bullet moves up and increases the OAL by about .002 each time.
I was having similar issues when I was reloading for my 45 with cast bullets
what am I missing here? (besides the manual)
:banghead: :banghead:

 

[Walkalong]

I feel like I get a lot of flack for not having a manual.

Well, that kind of comes with the territory.

If you are confident in your browsing the web, getting advise form strangers, and being able to separate the wheat from the chaff, then understand people are only trying to help and ignore the good advise of buying a manual.

But don't be surprised to get that advise, get your feelings hurt, or take it personally.

I noticed that each time the action puts the round into battery the bullet moves up and increases the OAL by about .002 each time.

Not something (Enough) to worry about. Unless you plan on doing that two dozen times each before firing them.

 

[xxxleafybugxxx]

so in reloading where accuracy in numbers is critical, I shouldn't be worried about the bullets increasing or decreasing OAL each time it goes into battery?
Do all semi auto's do this with reloads? I've experienced it with .45, and now with .30 carbine. It just doesn't feel right.

 

[xxleafybugxx]

The die at set I have is only a 3 die set. On youtube, a gentleman that reloads the .30 carbine has A lee 4 die set and states that the 4th is the crimp.
could that me why my bullets are moving in battery? I don't believe my 3 die set includes a crimp.

 

[xxleafybugxx]

I just occurred to me.. but could this be happening because I'm fairing the case too wide?

 

[Rule3]

Leafybug,

Where did all these folks obtain vast amount of information and knowledge to answer questions on the internet.??

Many were reloading before the net had online sources.

It is not intended to give you flack but to help you in the long run. Just like school or education, not everything is learned in class listening to a a teacher. They give you books (or you have to buy them). Yes, there is some good info on the company websites and forums, but there is also some info that is just plain wrong,

 

[Walkalong]

The die at set I have is only a 3 die set. On youtube, a gentleman that reloads the .30 carbine has A lee 4 die set and states that the 4th is the crimp.
could that me why my bullets are moving in battery? I don't believe my 3 die set includes a crimp.

Reread the thread, the answer to both questions are there.

 

[xxleafybugxx]

I will re-review the thread.... and just do you know.. my lymab manual is on the mail

 

[Sport45]

I will re-review the thread.... and just do you know.. my lymab manual is on the mail

See? Proof positive that folks can make typing mistakes when posting. Missing by one on a single digit in a load recipe can be the difference between a good day at the range and a ruined gun.

 

[TimSr]

I just occurred to me.. but could this be happening because I'm fairing the case too wide?

Any flare should be crimped away when you crimp.

What holds your bullet in place is the case being sized down. This is why I asked if you resized your cases. Many new cases are not sized, and will not hold your bulet tight.

The suggestions for a manual are because ever major load data manual has step by step instructions, in the proper order, telling you what to check and measure along the way. It's not just a handy resource for load data. It tells you how to verify that you've done each step correctly.

To get that information broken peacemeal over a bunch of internet sites, especially with all the differing opinions, will not be nearly as helpful, and much more confusing.

 

[xxleafybugxx]

I understand tim!
And sport, I'm a little more thorough in reloading than posting lol

 

[xxleafybugxx]

And even though the brass I have is new, the 1st step I've taken is with the resizing die... so that shouldn't be the issue

 

[Rule3]

I will re-review the thread.... and just do you know.. my lymab manual is on the mail

Glad ti see you ordered one. Now we can debate which manual is better.

Knowledge is power and the more you have the better. Comparing information in Lyman versus say Hornady is a whole other topic, it is good to be able to compare between the big 3, Lyman, Hornady and Speer. They all have something to offer. For new reloaders the ABCs of Reloading is excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/ABCs-Reloadin...411117&sr=8-1&keywords=the+abc's+of+reloading


Here is a free pdf from Lyman

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/presses-and-kits/pdf/IntroToReloading.pdf

 

[xxleafybugxx]

So then is the crimp amount determined by How far the die is screwed in?

 

[Walkalong]

Depends on the die.

Most? Yes.

FCD? No, the crimp adjustment is the center piece.

Your Lee seater? Yes.

 

[flat six]

I've only been a member here for a short time, so treat my experience accordingly...

I agree with everyone who has suggested getting a manual. These are frequently, but not always, published by firms that have extensive labs with the type of equipment necessary to ensure a safe load. Do we sometimes experiment outside of the bounds? Yes, but at our own risk. These books also explain how cartridges work, which helps to understand why certain powders are suitable and others are not. Also, firms such as Hogdgon publish load data online at no charge - again produced by a lab with suitable equipment.

As to the Lee dies, to my knowledge, the .30 Carbine set is only available as a 3 die set. The fourth die (that would be available with most pistol die sets) is called a Factory Crimp Die, and is available separately. The bullet seat die can be used to "crimp" but some prefer to use it only for seating and to take an extra step to use the Factory Crimp Die to ensure that the completed cartridge meets SAAMI specs.

There are two types of crimp - taper and roll. A roll crimp is used for revolvers or tubular magazine fed rifles. This crimp rolls the top of the case into a cannelure in the bullet and prevents the bullet from moving when subjected to recoil. These cases typically headspace on a rim.

The .30 Carbine headspaces on the case mouth. (This is one example of how a manual is helpful as understanding the four different ways that various cases headspace in a chamber (rim, shoulder, belt, or mouth) helps to understand how to load that cartridge.) So for this cartridge, you want to apply a taper crimp - either with the bullet seating die or as a separate step, using the crimp die. The crimp die for the .30 Carbine applies a taper crimp, which is appropriate for a case which headspaces on the case mouth.

For loading, I just went through a test of a new line of cases from a popular case manufacturer. I took advantage of the opportunity to also test different loads for accuracy. I used a Speer 110gr TMJ "Plinker" bullet with Remington 6 1/2 primers. I varied the charge, using H110, from 14.0 to 14.8 gr. I found that by far, the best groups were consistently from the 14.0gr charges. I was getting about 4 MOA at 100 yds shooting from a sandbag. I am sure that a more experienced shooter could do better, but all things being equal, for me and for this rifle, the 14.0gr load worked best. I also tried the Hornady 100gr short jacket. I shot only a 15.0gr load, but was not pleased with the results. I have more work to do here.

I hope some of this helps. Good luck with your new rifle.

 

[Clint M]

Flat Six, outstanding first post.

 

[xxleafybugxx]

Yes that was helpful.
my only other question is, wouldn't it make sense for me to use the crimp die?
If you saw the previous posts, you see that putting my rounds into battery effects the OAL. To me this is unsettling.

 

[flat six]

I wouldn't call myself an expert on this, however, it seems to me that if the cartridge is getting longer when running it through the action, then the bullet is too loose in the case. I believe you said that you put a good deal of force on the bullet after you loaded the cartridge and it didn't move. It seems odd that a carbine action (unlike a bolt action with much more leverage) would be able to move the bullet. Are you sure you are taking uniform measurements with your calipers? Sometimes when I measure the overall length, I get inconsistent readings, depending on how I hold the cartridge in the calipers.

I load for four calibers - two handgun and two rifle, and I always use a separate crimp die, perhaps overkill, but it makes me more confident in my ammo.

One thing to think about is the case itself. I was having trouble resizing .30 Carbine brass with the Lee carbide sizing die. I had a couple cases get stuck in the die and had to hammer them out. I spoke to someone at Lee a couple times - their customer service over the phone is excellent (hope I am allowed to say that here, if not let me know, moderator) - and they explained that although the carbine case is similar to a straight walled pistol case (unlike a shouldered rifle case) it is different in that it has a taper from the head to the mouth. When sizing a straight walled case such as .45 auto or 9X19, the case passes through a ring - like thin doughnut - of carbide inside the die. So the case only contacts a small surface of carbide as it passes through. However, as the carbine case is tapered, it is forced into a carbide cone such that at the end of the press stroke, the entire case is in contact with the carbide surface. This is why case lube is recommended, even though most carbide dies do not require it.

Now this can cause a problem when you think about the fact that the dies (sizing, seating (if used for crimp), and crimp, size the outside of the case, however, the bullet is held in place by the inside of the case. If all cases had the same wall thicknesses, then that wouldn't be an issue. But they don't. So the dies have to be constructed to work with relatively thin and relatively thick walled cases. If you have a thin walled case, you will need to size more to achieve the same bullet tension. If you have a thick walled case, then sizing too much will risk getting the case stuck.

Sorry for the rambling. I have also loaded for .45 auto, .45 Colt, and .30-'06 and I find the carbine case to be the most challenging of all. These are some of the things I have learned as I have had more experience with this caliber.

 

[Walkalong]

Get out your calipers and dial it to .002. Then tell me if in a .30 Carbine you think that is enough change in OAL to worry about.

You can always polish down the expander a little to help neck tension.