Rifle by the Inch

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ExAgoradzo

ExAgoradzo

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OK, so whenever I read published velocities I see "in a 24" barrel" (not talking about mags here). Then I look and everyone sells 22" barrels. (Specifically I'm thinking .30-06, but since I'm also looking at some medium bore rounds as well, include that in your comments.)

All my hunting is within 300 yards--I'm not planning on ever hunting longer than that.

In my way of thinking, since I am not looking for a lightweight gun, and since I'm thinking that whatever gun I get next I want to do 'larger' game up to a dream grizzly hunt I want as much barrel as I can get. The M70 Alaskan, one of the Kimbers, some of the semi-custom rifles all come in 24-25" barrels.

So, someone tell me I'm crazy for wanting to 'go long', or why I can just stick with the run-of-the-mill 22" rifles (including many M70's and Kimbers for example).

Thanks,
Greg
 
22 inches will work fine.keep it as light as possible. pachmayer decelerator pad and a gentry custom muzzle brake.remember,the older you get,the lighter you need to make things.you can also carry extra ammo or survival needs with the weight saved on the rifle.my best choices are stainless,synthetic.no need to chase rust,or worry about scratching a wood finish.no moisture problems to change point of bullet impact.
 
IMO you would be fine with 20" barrel in 30-06 if hunting within 300yds. The difference between a 22" barrel and 24" barrel is only going to be 100-150fps at the muzzle. I know people who hunt 800yds with 22" in 30-06. My dad got a brown bear at 600yds with a Rem 700 22" 30-06. 30-06 can definitely be used for Moose. Alot off people believe the 30-06 is to light for grizzly but people still use it, shot placement is everything. If I had to use 30-06 for grizzly I would prefer it be 150yds or less with 220gr. But for grizzly I would look at 300 win mag, 300 weatherby, or maybe even 375 H&H, but thats just me. If it was a dedicated grizzly rifle then 375H&H.
 
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You only lose approximately 100 FPS with a 2 inch shorter barrel. Sight in at say 100, and shoot targets at 200,300,400 and measure the bullet drops at those ranges. Write em down, you are good to go. Don't take a manufacturer's word on ballistics. All guns are different.
 
In my experience the only reason to choose between 22" and 24" is because one looks or balances better to you. Generally speaking longer is faster, but there is a greater difference between individual barrels than 2" of length makes. It is quite possible for individual guns with 22" barrels to shoot faster than another identical gun with 24" barrels. Or if you happen to be comparing a "fast" 24" barrel to a "slow" 22" barrel you could see 100-120 fps more speed with the longer barrel. Pick the one you like and take your chances.

FWIW, at 300 yards you don't need that much speed. Longer barrels are more useful for guys shooting at 600-700 yards. If you are looking at big stuff up close a shorter, handier gun is more important. I've read that the 20" Ruger 375's are quite popular in Alaska among brown bear guides.

If you are looking at one gun to do it all a good 30-06 or 300 mag is hard to beat. With good bullets they will work on the really big stuff and are not too big for more common game. A bigger gun such as a 375 is probably ideal for big bear, but is a handicap at all other times.

Personally I'd buy something more reasonable as an all around gun. A guided Alaskan brown bear hunt will set you back $30,000-$40,000 all told. If you can afford the cost of the hunt, you can afford a bigger dedicated rifle at that time.
 
I would be floored if you lost a full 100 fps, much less 150 fps going from a 24" to a 22" barrel on a '06 due to barrel length alone. My 165 gr hunting load averages ~2920 fps, which is approximately 18 fps less than what Hodgdon publishes for the same load in a 24" barrel. Also, I do not have a problem hitting 2800 fps with 180 gr loads in the same rifle.

If I were you, I would pick the rifle that I like best and not sweat whether it has a 22" or 24" barrel.

Edit: jmr40 beat me to it.
 
You only lose approximately 100 FPS with a 2 inch shorter barrel.
Click to expand...

The difference between a 22" barrel and 24" barrel is only going to be 100-150fps at the muzzle.
Click to expand...

No where near that much. Those numbers get tossed around on the internet, but there isn't any evidence to back them up. Any velocity changes between 2 different guns with different barrel lengths is useless. Over the years countless folks have measured velocity, cut barrels down and measured again and posted the results. The largest velocity loss I've seen documented from cutting a barrel back from 24" to 22" was 70 fps. And that was a 300 magnum.

Here are the results of some testing. The 270, which will lose more speed than a 30-06, only lost 114 fps when cut 6" shorter.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/short-barrel-magnum-velocity-19346/
 
The truth is, you have no idea how much velocity you lose or gain going from one length barrel to another. I have 2 .30-06 match rifles which both have 26" barrels, and with the very same load one does 2875fps and the other does 2950fps. Short barrels from premium custom barrel makers will get higher velocities than longer factory barrels. If you want a long barrel, go for it.

Don
 
I have a Rem700 in 270win in a 20" barrel. I am shooting 500 yards no problem. Plenty of power for everything up to big PA black bears. I also have a 308win with a 18" barrel and shoot to 300 yards. Rings good steel. I also load my own ammo so tend to run a faster powder at a low-mid velocity. The 270 likes it slightly north of mid velocity but I do not have a fireball lighting the woods a blaze like my friends 24" Rem in 270. We were shooting chucks and he lit the field on fire. And missed the chuck at 280yrds (by an inch or so but I will not admit that to him). He likes compressed loads throwing 150gr Speer Spire Points. Point is, a smaller barrel will work just fine for going to 300 in your high powered rifles.
 
So you want to go hunting with a 30-06 within 300 yards.

No animal will ever know the difference between a bullet fired out of a 22" or a 24" barrel.

Don't worry about it.
 
No where near that much. Those numbers get tossed around on the internet, but there isn't any evidence to back them up.
Click to expand...

The only evidence I have of those numbers is the difference between my 20" 308 and my brothers 22" 308 with the same loads. My rifle lost on average 115fps, thats why I said between 100-150fps. I know 30-06 and 308 aren't the same caliber and thats why I gave the broader range. Also it could be like USSR said and it was the difference in the barrel makers.
 
If you are only hunting out to 300yrds the quality of the gun all round is far more important than the length of the barrel.
As far as I'd be concerned gun quality out to 500 or 600 yrds is more important.
 
Since you mentioned kimber, I will say that a kimber with a 24" barrel feels and handles like a 22". Partly due to shorter buttstock, and partly due to overall light weight.
 
USSR said:
The truth is, you have no idea how much velocity you lose or gain going from one length barrel to another. I have 2 .30-06 match rifles which both have 26" barrels, and with the very same load one does 2875fps and the other does 2950fps. Short barrels from premium custom barrel makers will get higher velocities than longer factory barrels. If you want a long barrel, go for it.

Don
Click to expand...
I believe Don summed it up pretty well as my personal experiences run along with his. I got into this years ago going OCD with a chronograph and the results varied.

OK, so whenever I read published velocities I see "in a 24" barrel"
Click to expand...

Even then all that really means is a certain test rifle shooting a certain load on a given day delivered those velocities. Your mileage may vary. There are all sorts of variables in there beyond barrel length. Chamber leade, rifling, and the list goes on.

Buy a barrel length that you are comfortable with where the rifle balances out well for you. Then work up some loads and run them over a good chronograph and see what you get. More velocity does not always aquaing to better accuracy anyway.

Just My Take
Ron
 
The difference in both chamber pressure and muzzle velocity is minimal when changes in barrel lengths, the only major advantage to a longer barrel may be better stabilization and better tolerance to wind deflection on long shots.
 
I appreciate your comments.

I don't pretend to have the talent, equipment, skis, or time needed to hunt past 300... Not sure even that far since with my 270 Win I only consistently hit the 254 yard target. But I would like more umph. Lately I have been considering the WinMag, but like the idea of 'staying conventional'. I am also considering other non-mags like the .338-06, 35 Whelen, and the 9.3 Mauser. But reality is that I want something I like to shoot AND can afford.

Again, thanks for input...
Greg
 
Simulated my CZ550 30-06 in QuickLoad, it has a 23.75" barrel and my go to hunting load is rather modest and is a 180gr. Accubond at 2 632fps. Bringing that barrel down to 19.75" for the same given load drops the velocity to 2 517fps.

The velocity drop is 115fps but I can get back on an accuracy Node with the shorter barrel using more powder and my new load would be at 2 639fps. With my powder and bullet combo that would be the fastest that I could get my rifle going in a 19.75" configuration. Where with the 23.75 barrel I could get up to 2 737fps. This is of little consequence to me as I do not chase speed.

More importantly the barrel time changes from 1.294 to 1 183ms and therefore so will the accuracy nodes. If you are hand loading this can be compensated for, if you are shooting factory ammo geared around a 24" barrel it may make a difference.

Short barrels do not affect accuracy.

If weight is not a problem then a shorter barrel with a heavier profile would be great as heavy barrels do positively affect accuracy.
 
Just read the LRH article above.

Oh my: that was not what I expected. I thought the 50fps rule was valid. Because he went on 'both sides' of the .30-06 with the 270 Win and the 300 WM I expect the Springfield would be similar.

So, balance and barrel are the deciding factors. Now I need to go about finding what factory guns are the best. Go with the standards? M70, Browning, Ruger, CZ, ???

Thanks again,
Greg
 
The CZ550 Full Stock is a thing of beauty and sports a 20.5" barrel, that would get my vote. This way you get a great quality rifle, you get the controlled feed which is important for DG hunting and you get very good quality.

CZ-550-FS.gif
 
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Let me try and put your .270 into perspective it is a great bullet out to 300 or 350 yd. after that you still have plenty of power but the drop becomes much harder to manage. Firing a factory bullet lets say 130gr Win. silvertip and zeroing at 100 yd. your bullet drop at 200 yd. is about 3.5 in. at 250 yd. it is approx. 6.5 in. and at 300 yd. 11.5 in. Those shots can be handled with a little practice on a deer size or larger target. It is capable of killing well past that but the drop is much greater. For a good economical .270 or .06 check out the Ruger American Rifle priced very reasonable and are accurate and light.
 
I agree with this^^^^ And using a high powered rifle at 300 the game will not know. It will die just as dead.
I know a fellow using a CZ 7.62x39 out to 300. He is spitting cast boolits and doing it well. And the velocity is far lower than a factory jacketed load.
 
.
Been reading from Cooper's Commentaries lately. Great stuff.

Jeff Cooper enjoyed much success in Africa using his .376 Steyr w/ a 19" barrel. His brainchild, the .308 Steyr Scout, also has a 19" barrel. He too believed that no hunter should brag about how long his shot was but rather how close he could get. 300 meters, too, was the limit he spoke of.

Cooper's experience led him to believe that if one felt the need for a harder-hitting round then one should use a heavier bullet, not look for more velocity.
 
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