Rifle calibers for African game
- Thread starter cyrano
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atlanticfire
Member
I've always wanted somthing in 458 lott.
The best African rifles are side by sides. Although I think that mause rreceiver type rifle would be OK. Maybe a CZ550 in somthing atleast 375 or bigger? Im sure you'll get all kinds of input from the guys on here, that might know more than me.
The best African rifles are side by sides. Although I think that mause rreceiver type rifle would be OK. Maybe a CZ550 in somthing atleast 375 or bigger? Im sure you'll get all kinds of input from the guys on here, that might know more than me.
Sunray
Member
"...too small?..." Yep. Most African countries require .375, as a minimum, for dangerous game.
African hunts are priced by the day. A 7 day hunt in Namibia for a non-trophy elephant runs $11,500US. Namibia is cheap too.
Trophy fees for elephant, if you can get a licence, are astronomical too. $15,000US, in Zimbabwe.
Rhino(white only) trophy fees are given upon your application.
Rummage around here for much better info. http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve
African hunts are priced by the day. A 7 day hunt in Namibia for a non-trophy elephant runs $11,500US. Namibia is cheap too.
Trophy fees for elephant, if you can get a licence, are astronomical too. $15,000US, in Zimbabwe.
Rhino(white only) trophy fees are given upon your application.
Rummage around here for much better info. http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve
Gordon
Member
A cheap Buffalo hunt now is $10,000+ although they might say $5000 + "fees" to hook ya. It was out of my league in 2008 when I went. $10000 + airfare will get you a wonderful 5+ species plains game hunt, by the time you leave. Add another 5K by the time the heads are hanging on the wall.
I took a .375 H&H and a 270 WSM. I shot everything but Gemsbok with the .270WSM with 150 grain Federal Nosler Partition with one shot each. The Gemsbok, although well hit thru lungs I put in another 300 grain .375H&H Federal Nosler Partition when it stopped after a short dash .
I took a .375 H&H and a 270 WSM. I shot everything but Gemsbok with the .270WSM with 150 grain Federal Nosler Partition with one shot each. The Gemsbok, although well hit thru lungs I put in another 300 grain .375H&H Federal Nosler Partition when it stopped after a short dash .
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Sav .250
Member
Not all game in Africa is ...big. So, for me, I`d opt for small to med game cal such as a 30-06. For the big stuff ,how bout the 458 Lott or the 338 Win mag?
I`ve never been there but rest assured if I did go I`d go ..HEAVY>
I`ve never been there but rest assured if I did go I`d go ..HEAVY>
Lloyd Smale
Member
to small and i would never trust my life on a dangerous game hunt to a semi auto rifle. It can get real hot and real dirty and those are two things semi autos dont like. A good bolt gun in 375 on up would be my choise and if i had to nail it down to one it would be a 416 rem or rigby
Is there really such a thing as an African hunt still possible? Rhino is protected. Elephant is nearly protected with astronomical fees and you can't bring ivory back to the U.S. Lions and leopards may also be protected or severely restricted.
It's not 1955 any longer. The animals are not abundant and are protected. Most African governments are run by black Marxists and these are very dangerous places for foreign visitors. If you do decide to go despite the danger and limited game selection, the cost is absolutely out of this world.
It's not 1955 any longer. The animals are not abundant and are protected. Most African governments are run by black Marxists and these are very dangerous places for foreign visitors. If you do decide to go despite the danger and limited game selection, the cost is absolutely out of this world.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
SaxonPig, there's plenty of hunting in Africa, and a large amount of it is relatively free from political problems. After all, it's to the governments' interest to keep that money rolling in.
The big problem is that the dollar won't buy what it did in the 1950s. About all anybody can say is, "Tough stuff."
As far as dangerous game, many countries mandate 40-caliber as a minimum. .416s seem to be popular among experienced hunters.
Plains game is a whole different deal where "little guns" can be used, but one factor is that the professional hunter will have a DG rifle "in case of in case".
The big problem is that the dollar won't buy what it did in the 1950s. About all anybody can say is, "Tough stuff."
As far as dangerous game, many countries mandate 40-caliber as a minimum. .416s seem to be popular among experienced hunters.
Plains game is a whole different deal where "little guns" can be used, but one factor is that the professional hunter will have a DG rifle "in case of in case".
Maverick223
Member
Without question, yes that is far too small for any of the large DG. If you are serious about hunting the Big-5 including elephant then you are generally required by law to use something in .375H&H or greater (some countries allow the 9.3x64Brenneke some do not, some require 4k ft/lbs and .375cal and larger, and some require a .40cal+), however that is still far too small IMO. I would go with an absolute minimum of a .416Rigby, and preferably a stout .45+cal. such as the .458Lott or .470NE. Elephant, rhino, hippo, and cape buff. are not something that you want to play around with using you pea-shooter. I wouldn't hesitate to go on a cape buffalo hunt with a .375H&H, but would want more gun for anything larger. From all accounts the .30-06/.303/8mm Mauser is fine for Lion, but it still carries the .375H&H minimum.
Also to reiterate the above statements, African DG hunts are very expensive. That is why half of us folks aren't there right now (I know I would be).
having never been to africa, and having as close to zero desire as you can get to even go to africa (way too many species in north america for me to kill to consider leaving north america, yet): i would opt for a 375 ruger for a minimum dangerous game rifle and something along the lines of a 7 rem mag for plains game.
i would also suggest getting in touch w/ people who either guide over there or hunt there every year or two to find out the real deal on what works, what gets used, and what are legal minimums for guns. from my limited reading on the subject, it is my understanding the 375 is minimum legal in most countries, and the 416's and bigger are preferred.
good luck!
i would also suggest getting in touch w/ people who either guide over there or hunt there every year or two to find out the real deal on what works, what gets used, and what are legal minimums for guns. from my limited reading on the subject, it is my understanding the 375 is minimum legal in most countries, and the 416's and bigger are preferred.
good luck!
Art- I know there is other game in Africa, but I think it was the mystical lure of the "Big 5" that most hunters sought in hunting Africa. Now, I think only the buffalo is still readily available and the other animals are too similar to species native to North America to make the cost worth it.
But if I WERE going, I am ready.
Light rifle:
Medium rifle:
Heavy rifle:
But if I WERE going, I am ready.
Light rifle:
Medium rifle:
Heavy rifle:
The guy you want to talk to is H&H Hunter. Send him a pm if he does not pop in here. He has more knowledge and experience with African game and large bore rifles than anyone i have ever met. If I were going to do it I would have a 458 Lott or 470NE.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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You're asking about chamberings, not action types or rifles....
Some of the better, reasonably-affordable (i.e. non-NE calibers etc.), chamberings for the largest DG that you mention, in my understanding, are those that perform well (meeting the standard minimum velocity and bullet weight requirements, such as "400 gr @ 2400 fps", etc.) for your tastes and preferences, AND are large enough to be legal in the particular country you're going to (can be "over .400" caliber or a certain energy requirement, or weight plus velocity requirement), AND (perhaps most importantly if you cannot afford a double rifle), are a relatively LOW-pressure round, so that they will not bind up the action, but will rather extract reliably in a turnbolt even in the hot african sun to save your ass - they include some of the tried and true rounds like:
-.404 Jeffrey
-.416 Rigby
-.505 Gibbs
-.458 Win Mag (and .458 Lott)
All of those have a LOT going for them, especially the first two. There's a few others that meet these requirements, that I'm forgetting, I think. The bolded concern is why the really "hot" stuff is not more popular (.375 RUM, etc.), in my understanding. Personally, if I get a true African rifle, I'm leaning toward .416 Rigby or .458 Lott. I figure my 9.3x62 will handle up to Eland.
That's DG. As for Non-DG ("plains game"), just your standard North American chambering of choice will cover everything (stuff like .270 Win, .30-'06, whatever) you will encounter, until/unless you go up against something really big like Eland (or maybe zebra), where you might want a .338 Win Mag, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62, .375 HH mag, etc. Those last ("medium") chamberings are also popular, in my understanding, for smaller DG like Lion and Leopard. I believe SOME countries allow the .375 HH mag as an *exception* to their general "must be 400 @ 2400" or whatever rule, for large DG also, because it's considered such an effective, tried and true chambering, even though it's not .400 or larger! So if you go to the right place, and if you want to take "just one" rifle (for some reason), then the chambering should be .375 H&H magnum.
You can hunt just about anything legally (AND morally - not endangered species) somewhere in Africa, if you have enough $$.
Going on a multi-species non-DG plains game hunt is actually quite affordable right now, relative to the past, and relative to alternative out-of-country trophy hunting trips like Canada, etc. There's a lot of competition for your safari dollars, and that's good for hunters. At least it's relatively cheap BEFORE taxidermy fees, for said MULTI-trophy hunt.
Oh yeah, if you want a true african DG rifle, but yet in a very affordable package, then the chambering for you is .458 Win Mag or .458 Lott (or in some circumstances .375 HH mag), and the rifle for you is the CZ 550 American Safari Magnum - you can get a true DG caliber in a sub-$1,500 rifle, IINM, because the action is slightly smaller than "true" DG actions. BUT, beward cracking stock concerns on CZ 550s.
Some of the better, reasonably-affordable (i.e. non-NE calibers etc.), chamberings for the largest DG that you mention, in my understanding, are those that perform well (meeting the standard minimum velocity and bullet weight requirements, such as "400 gr @ 2400 fps", etc.) for your tastes and preferences, AND are large enough to be legal in the particular country you're going to (can be "over .400" caliber or a certain energy requirement, or weight plus velocity requirement), AND (perhaps most importantly if you cannot afford a double rifle), are a relatively LOW-pressure round, so that they will not bind up the action, but will rather extract reliably in a turnbolt even in the hot african sun to save your ass - they include some of the tried and true rounds like:
-.404 Jeffrey
-.416 Rigby
-.505 Gibbs
-.458 Win Mag (and .458 Lott)
All of those have a LOT going for them, especially the first two. There's a few others that meet these requirements, that I'm forgetting, I think. The bolded concern is why the really "hot" stuff is not more popular (.375 RUM, etc.), in my understanding. Personally, if I get a true African rifle, I'm leaning toward .416 Rigby or .458 Lott. I figure my 9.3x62 will handle up to Eland.
That's DG. As for Non-DG ("plains game"), just your standard North American chambering of choice will cover everything (stuff like .270 Win, .30-'06, whatever) you will encounter, until/unless you go up against something really big like Eland (or maybe zebra), where you might want a .338 Win Mag, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62, .375 HH mag, etc. Those last ("medium") chamberings are also popular, in my understanding, for smaller DG like Lion and Leopard. I believe SOME countries allow the .375 HH mag as an *exception* to their general "must be 400 @ 2400" or whatever rule, for large DG also, because it's considered such an effective, tried and true chambering, even though it's not .400 or larger! So if you go to the right place, and if you want to take "just one" rifle (for some reason), then the chambering should be .375 H&H magnum.
You can hunt just about anything legally (AND morally - not endangered species) somewhere in Africa, if you have enough $$.
Going on a multi-species non-DG plains game hunt is actually quite affordable right now, relative to the past, and relative to alternative out-of-country trophy hunting trips like Canada, etc. There's a lot of competition for your safari dollars, and that's good for hunters. At least it's relatively cheap BEFORE taxidermy fees, for said MULTI-trophy hunt.
Oh yeah, if you want a true african DG rifle, but yet in a very affordable package, then the chambering for you is .458 Win Mag or .458 Lott (or in some circumstances .375 HH mag), and the rifle for you is the CZ 550 American Safari Magnum - you can get a true DG caliber in a sub-$1,500 rifle, IINM, because the action is slightly smaller than "true" DG actions. BUT, beward cracking stock concerns on CZ 550s.
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.45-70, I went with one if these for my "Big Medicine" and all around hunting gun...
Marlin 1895 CB, the 26" BBL really ramps up the big Buffalo Cartridge's speed. It also carries 8 rounds, and if it cannot be killed with 8 rounds of .45-70, than I am convinced that you should have brought one of these...
Garrett makes these...
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/500gr.asp
Just for the African trip of your dreams.
Also, and interesting article.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/45-70_big_game_hunter.htm
Marlin 1895 CB, the 26" BBL really ramps up the big Buffalo Cartridge's speed. It also carries 8 rounds, and if it cannot be killed with 8 rounds of .45-70, than I am convinced that you should have brought one of these...
Garrett makes these...
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/500gr.asp
Just for the African trip of your dreams.
Also, and interesting article.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/45-70_big_game_hunter.htm
SwampWolf
Member
I got all of my trophy animals in Africa with my trusty .416 Remington-and one included a charging cape buffalo dropped within a foot of where I stood. The ph was complimenting my nerves of steel when I woke up. My wife still doesn't know why the bedsheet was all wet. 
earlthegoat2
Member
It is of my opinion that the 495 A-Square is THE best heavy cartridge you can use in a turnbolt rifle for the heaviest game. Now it would be more advisable to go with something more common in Africa I would think such as the 416 Remington, 458 Winchester, 416 Rigby, or 500 Jeffrey. If a lighter rifle is needed I would go with the 7x57 or 303 British since they are both common in Africa.
Maverick223
Member
The CZ-550 Am. Safari is a full size (or oversized IMO) magnum action that will hold 5x .458Lotts, or 3x .416Rigbys IIRC. Nothing about it is small...or promotes easy handling. It isn't a bad rifle, but there are some details that need a little attention right out of the box; including: bed the rifle to prevent cracking the stock, add an aftermarket safety to endure that it doesn't engage during recoil, and polish the somewhat rough action.
I would suggest deciding where you plan to go first, then check local regulations. Some African jurisdictions (and there are many) don't allow hunting with semiautos. Secondly, some don't allow anything under .375 for dangerous game. And yes, although I'm sure somebody has used it somewhere, a 338 is too small for elephant and buffalo. Hunting dangerous game is not the place to see how small a rifle you can get away with.
I'd take two rifles, something in the 30-06 class for plains game and a real dangerous game rifle in 458 for the big stuff.
Maverick223
Member
If you really want a semi-auto rifle, and it is legal where you plan to hunt, then the Garand chambered for .458WM would be the only good option that I can think of. Check your bank account before buying.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
Well, Mav, I think you're right... what I'm thinking of is that the larger 550s come in two configs (sizes?). The much cheaper one (the American Safari Magnum), and then the more expensive one (think it's called just the 'Safari' or similar). I had assumed (perhaps erroneously) that the more expensive one was that way mostly due to having a larger action... Thanks for the correction; I'll look into it.
Hey earlthegoat...
How come you say that? Edumacate us, please.
Hey earlthegoat...
How come you say that? Edumacate us, please.
Maverick223
Member
No problem, there are two basic versions: The "American Safari Magnum" and the "Safari Magnum". The Am. is the same rifle with an "American" styled straight pattern stock, the other is basically the old BRNO with the typical European "hogsback" style stock. The only difference between the two actions is the addition of a second recoil lug for the Am. version. Presumably added due to issues with cracked stocks, that is not to say that the Euro didn't have same issues, but the only ones that I have heard of were Am. Safaris, though they are much more prevalent, possibly accounting for this. I would properly bed either one so you know that it will be secure. These versions are about the same price but there is a "custom shop" version (actually a separate company that does the modifications) called the "Safari Classic", these have all of the refinements (better furniture, polished blue, bbl band swivel stud, bedded, polished action, et cetera) that you would expect, but that comes with additional cost (start at about $2250.00+ IIRC).
I "tried on" both versions and by far prefer the handling of the Euro hogsback version better, but they have one disadvantage that I didn't care for...the lack of a .458Lott chambering option (though they have .458WM and .416Rigby). Overall I think they are a good value if you want an inexpensive rifle and are willing to put a little work/cash into it for a few modifications/improvements. Personally, I would just go with a "Safari Classic" if I liked the CZ. If you want something to be good right out of the box I think the Winchester M-70 Safari Express looks promising and is about the same price point as the standard CZ-550.
Maverick223
Member
Tell that pig what you really think!
No going to Africa to hunt trophy big game isn't cheap, but there is still plenty of opportunity there. Really though, hunting any trophy animals is expensive. Looked at a stone sheep hunt lately? Most brown bear hunts are 15K plus all your incidentals. Heck a true trophy mule deer hunt can set you back close to 10k.
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