rifle or shotgun for HD?

[stephen m]

I live in a rural setting, over penetration is not a concern. Wife and myself only at home. Handguns are the primary HD guns; 1 for me (with light attached plus seperate bright light), another gun for the lady of the house.

The long gun is for barracade situations, when having to check around the house outside (not the entire yard, just the house exterior), and what ever else might happen that I can't imagine right now.

I already have a good copy of both so I don't want a disertation on brands, calibers, mods, ect. Just a rifle vs. shotgun debate with the atributes and drawbacks of each in realation to the jobs mentioned.

 

[SigfanUSAF]

Shotgun.
Remington 870 pump 12 ga.( I know you didn't want brands, but a Khan pump wouldn't do). Simple, easy to maintain, buckshot from an 18 or 20" barrel does wonders on an intruders complection, reliable, and by swapping on your 28" barrel, you can feed the family too. As far as a baricade situation, I should imagine slugs would be more than ample for those who have you surrounded

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Ah darn SIGFAN beat me to it.

 

[ChristopherG]

My HD shotgun is intended to be my serious go-to gun for inside the house. If I go outside in a 'code orange' situation, I want a gun that will authoritatively and repeatedly reach out to the greatest range from which an adversary could engage me. I live in a smallish town, and the houses are close together; but I can easily see longer than 25 yards in a number of directions--and beyond 25 yards, a shotgun is just a slow, less accurate, makeshift substitute for a rifle.

So, if I'm stayin' inside, the shotgun is just right. If I'm goin' outside, I'm taking a rifle.

 

[Geronimo45]

A 12 gauge is plenty of gun if you're operating on a budget. Slugs can do longer range. You've got serious power either way. Person preference is for a Mini 14 or a M1 carbine for all-purpose use.

 

[knoxx45]

the wife and I have AR15's as our HD guns

The way that I see it, I'm not going to "clear" my house. If I think that someone is breaking into my house, I lock the bedroom door, call the police, and the wife and I both have AR15's. Therefore, we each have 10 rounds (we live in the Peoples republik of NJ) before we have to reload. We are working with a very small entry way. Since we both have AR's, we can exchange mags. She has the Eotech, while I prefer the Aimpoint, so we are both two-eye open, light'em up, they ain't getting through the door, shooting

 

[grizz]

870 w/ 8 rounds of 00 buck. If that doesn't do it, a XD-40 w/ 2 full mags. If I'm being attacked by a whole platoon, then the AR-15 comes out.

 

[10-Ring]

Shotgun...plain and simple

 

[1911 guy]

If I had to pick one,

It would be a shotgun with 00 down to #4, nothing smaller. My second choice would be an AR with a light HP at high velocity (I use 45gr at 3600fps) to limit over penetration. I also have a handgun handy, but that's to get me to a long arm if things have gotten really weird.

 

[stephen m]

OK, the general feel is for the shotty. But why choose it over the rifle? What

advantages and or disadvantages does it have over the rifle?

As I said I already have both (and practice with both) so cost and ease of

learning are not an issue.

Just what are the tactical (I hate that word anymore) advantages of one over the other in this setting?

 

[Exmasonite]

first off, i would definitely say long gun over handgun, given the choice. In the worst SHTF situation, shotgun/rifle can double as a melee weapon (if you're not able to employ your knife, etc)

Shotgun Advantages: Less overpenetration concern. Flexibility of buckshot and slugs, Marksmanship not QUITE as important (but nothing like the "sure thing" some people say)

Rifle Ads: Capacity (most of the time but dependent on gun and location), semi auto (some high end shotties will be, too), Better at range (but usually not to applicable to HD unless your being assailed by a small army on your farm), Better penetration (if BG's are wearing basic body armor)

For me, with a roommate and having 6+ houses within 200 yds of my house, shotgun would be my first choice. Too much risk w/ the AR and sending a .223 round into my neighbor's bedroom.

 

[Soybomb]

rifle - between .223 and 12ga 00 buck I don't think there is any penetration difference to worry about. Ar15 can't be short stroked. I have 30 chances to hit instead of 8 and can reload far far faster. If the person is wearing soft armor it won't matter. Faster follow up shots.

shotgun - its cheaper...if you're using the rounds you should be using it'll go through dry wall just as easy as anything else.

Honestly I think there's alot of myth that goes into this discussion like

• with shotguns you dont have to aim
• the sound of a shotgun being pumped has given 27 people heart attacks
• buckshot knows how to stop at drywall but .223 will keep going for 27 city blocks

and really I just don't think any of them are true.

 

[ravencon]

In a rural area where overpenetration is not an issue--rifle.

For me, the AR-15 has perfect ergonomics, handling, and can be readily modified to suit all manner of situations.

Of course, a shotgun will do very nicely.

 

[profshadow]

My choice is shotgun. Have a Mossberg 500 "Persuader" pump. And the way I see it, if you hear the "cha-chunk" then that means the first round wasn't headed for you...but the second one probably is. And you should be deaf by then anyway....

For long distance, I'll use the 30-30 on the Savage24F-12. But that's hunting now, not home defense.

Though I'll have a several choices of pistol as well, my choice is the shottie. As was pointed out earlier, it makes a Real Nice Club if it gets to that too.

 

[Superpsy]

When I saw the thread title I didn't realize it was a serious question.

Shotgun, 870 pump with 00 buck. No question.

 

[tyesai]

I have 30 chances to hit instead of 8 and can reload far far faster. If the person is wearing soft armor it won't matter. Faster follow up shots.

Can you hit them nine times in a row in a milli second?

Doing a quick dogpile search I found that 00 buck shot weighs 54gr and there is 9 of them coming out of one barrel. Also doing a quick search I found lots of .223 ammo comes in 55gr bullets.

IMHO the shotty destroys the AR15 in most HOME defensive situations. Do you really invision a platoon of zombies kicking down your door or is one maybe two crackheads a more logical scenario.

You do have a point with faster follow up shots but I bet I can get 72 54gr pellets out the 12 gauge before you can get 30 55gr out of the AR.

As far as over penetration goes here is my theory.

First off what are the chances that you actually have to use your defensive weapon? Slim to none.
Then what are the chances that you miss? Definately higher than having to use the weapon but still you could say you hit 50 percent of the time in a stressfull home invasion.
Then add to the chance that you miss and your bullets over penetrate the walls and go into another persons area. What are the chances that they, at that exact moment, that your personal space is broken into and you fire a gun at an intruder and miss them, that it goes through the wall with enough force to hit someone in a fashion that it is fatal or cripling to that individual? I feel that the chances are about the same as this scenario.

I win the powerball for 30 million dollars while home on leave in N.Y. I goto pick up my check at lotto H.Q. and while there I learn my wife and two kids have died from a rabid sasquatch attack that invaded Jacksonville A.R. from the Boggy creek in North Little Rock. Upon hearing of my sad tale, Angelina Jolie happens to be in New York City adopting a little black baby from the upper east side. She feels sorry for me and takes me to her penthouse and has sex with me for three weeks straight to ease my pain. End of story.

Both short tales are plausible but unlikely. That is my theory of over penetration.

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

Tyesai that is the most rediculous comparison. I am glad you aren't my neighbor.

And people wonder why a lot of politicians hate guns.

 

[stephen m]

Tyesai, I started this post with the statment that overpenetration wasn't an

issue in my situation. My situation as stated is home defence with the

possibility of having to check around my house. If you don't think this

situation is realistic then what type of H.D. do you think is? I have had to

search both inside and outside my house before, this is not an idle question.

I have yet to see a reason to choose a shotgun over a rifle. A lot of

people have stated their preference for the shotty but none have given me a

real reason to choose it over the rifle. Is there one or is this just all personal

preference and emotion?

 

[ChristopherG]

The only reason for a shotgun over a rifle at short range (given that excessive penetration is not a concern) is that it's a LITTLE more forgiving of hurried aim & shooting, while giving up nothing in "stopping power" (given an appropriate load).

That's the main reason I choose it over a semi-auto .223 for in-the-house readiness.

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

If you have to search around, I would honestly rather have a handgun. .40 S&W or higher. I wouldn't go with a 1911 either due to their limited magazine (7 rounds). Possible choice:

Have your primary where you need it. Have a handgun (or two) in locations that are easily reached by yourself or wife. When you need to search I would switch over to a handgun and take wide corners. In *most* homes a 4 in or longer barrel is adaquette.

I would always invest in a nice 3 pt sling for your primary and possibly a bandolier for a shotgun.

Sorry if this doesn't help you, but I am a 19 year old college student who lives with his single mom. I probably don't have a lot of personal experience when it comes to this stuff, and I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction. Good luck in your search.

 

[bubbygator]

If you are competent with a pistol, what's wrong with using your bedside pistol as your main HD gun? With normal capacity magazines now available again, my BHP can pump out 18 aimed shots, then another 17, then another 17... if 52 aimed shots won't do it, I'm screwed anyhow.

 

[Jeff White]

stephen m asked;

A lot of

people have stated their preference for the shotty but none have given me a

real reason to choose it over the rifle. Is there one or is this just all personal

preference and emotion?

No there is no reason to choose one over the other. Both weapons will adequately perform given your intended use. It all comes down to what your personal preference is and what you are most comfortable with.

The choice of a weapon is immaterial and has almost no bearing in a defensive situation. Any firearm with any type of action that is reliable and is chambered in a caliber that is sufficient for rapid incapactiation of an attacker will serve you well.

There are three components that go into a successful defensive encouter using a firearm. They are Mindset, Marksmanship and Manipulation. These components are called the Combat Triad. Of those three necessary things, marksmanship is the easiest to be proficient in. But it's also the least likely skill you'll need. Mindset is the most important, followed by manipulation. You can have the best tactical mind and a natural ability to assess a situation and get inside your opponent's OODA loop and you may be the worlds best shot, but if you fumble around trying to place your weapon into action, then you're playing catch up again. You may notice that none of them address what kind of firearm you use. It's not that important.

In my opinion the shooting community places way too much emphisis on hardware and not nearly enough on software.

My recommendation is to pick whichever type weapon you are most comfortable with and train with it. Your mission requirements; The long gun is for barracade situations, when having to check around the house outside (not the entire yard, just the house exterior), and what ever else might happen that I can't imagine right now. can be accomplished effectively with either a rifle or a shotgun.

Jeff

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

Honestly you are better off staying in your house. It is bad news to leave your house to shoot someone. I don't understand why a lot of people disregard the handgun for HD. Here is my take on HD weapons:

For reliability a good pump action shotgun in either 12 or 20 gauge, a revolver, or even a makarov semi-auto handgun(yuck) will do you well.

I personally would rather have something such as a 16" AR which I can customize to my liking and style. Or maybe a SIG P226 .40 or XD in .40 or .45.

Hell why not just go all out and kick ass with an M203?

 

[tyesai]

Heavy Metal said

Tyesai that is the most rediculous comparison. I am glad you aren't my neighbor.

And people wonder why a lot of politicians hate guns.

It was meant to be ridiculous. I want someone to give me a dozen examples of bullets going through a house, into someone else's and fatatly wounding them. WTH does that statement have to do with the mainly crappy politicians in office?

Stephen M said

Tyesai, I started this post with the statment that overpenetration wasn't an
issue in my situation. My situation as stated is home defence with the
possibility of having to check around my house. If you don't think this situation is realistic then what type of H.D. do you think is? I have had to
search both inside and outside my house before, this is not an idle question.
I have yet to see a reason to choose a shotgun over a rifle. A lot of
people have stated their preference for the shotty but none have given me a
real reason to choose it over the rifle. Is there one or is this just all personal
preference and emotion?

Your type of situation is very real, most of my comment was really aimed at Soybomb, I don't really think 30 rounds would ever be necessary in a home security matter, nor do I feel defeating body armor should be much of a concern.

As far as your original question goes, nothing wrong with a rifle, it will kill most things dead just as well as a shotgun, but, and here comes the but. I don't know how you could argue the fact that a 00 buck shot is spitting out 9 54gr pellets vs .223 ammo wich is one 55gr projectile.

As far as the drawbacks to either one I can't think of anything else. Both can be had with shorty barrels, both are going to be louder than H when you pull the trigger. I don't have a rifle for home defense, I have several but none dedicated to that cause. I have the shotgun if I ever hear a bang in the night and I know something isn't right, and I have an eight shot .357 for checking things out. Thank god I've never grabbed the shotty.

 

[_N4Z_]

Have all handy and cover all your bases.

Revolver for quick easy deployment at short notice, and making it to more potent available choices.

12 gauge 00buck for corridor clearing within the domicile.

7.62x39 AK type, bayonet optional.