Rifle Tactic for Home Defense

[TheAzn]

I am aware that there are many scenarios concerning home defense. For this thread, I am not talking about barricading oneself in the some corner of the house; instead, I am talking about a scenario where you were forced to actively search the house to fight the intruder(s).

We all know that a pistol or handgun would be better for this job. Now, suppose that you have only rifles and no handguns. Are there any tactics (i.e. any way to hold the rifle) that would make it harder for criminals to force the rifle out of my hands? Are there any rifle tactics that would make it easier to me to round the corner of the house without greatly hindering my ability to shoot quickly?

 

[USAF_Vet]

Much of that depends on the type of rifle. If you're clearing your home (not a good idea unless you are moving to secure young children) you won't want a four foot long Mosin Nagant. Corner shooting is done in the movies, and the pray and spray method is extremely dangerous. If the rifle is on a sling, wearing it properly is one way to retain the weapon, even if its knocked from your hands, you won't lose the rifle.

In my house, I can see down the hallway to the kids' rooms from my bedroom door. Despite that, I lose sight of it as I move through the living room and have a tight corner to access the hall again. Try to avoid coming up on the corner tight against the near wall. In other words, take the corner as wide as possible.

Hold the rifle in a ready position, so if you have to take a shot, you can do so easily. Even if someone grabs the barrel of the rifle, twist towards them to force the barrel into center mass rather than away from it. If the bbl is forced up, club the assailant with the stock. If forced down, drop to a knee to level the bbl.

Clearing a house solo is not recommended, but can be required. Don't go track down a bad guy if you can avoid it. Grab the kids (I'm assuming that is why you are clearing) and hunker down with them and call the cops.

 

[xcgates]

Lower-recoiling rifle could be held with the stock over the shoulder, so you have a very short LOP (Length of Pull, distance from butt plate to trigger). This would be affected by the type and position of any sighting devices you have.

I'm having a hard time thinking of any other way of holding, as I think the only thing to make handling a rifle easier in this case would be to reduce LOP. Other that that, go with bullpup, but it sounds like you are asking about standard rifles, and what you have available?

^The above only addresses handling of a rifle in tight quarters, I wasn't using a sling then, so that would complicate it.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by TheAzn: ...I am talking about a scenario where you were forced to actively search the house to fight the intruder(s).

I can imagine scenarios in which one would have one would have to move around the house to get family members to safety, and should one encounter an intruder in the process, one may have to shoot. However, I can see no earthly reason other than that to give up all tactical advantage and to put oneself at extreme risk of being ambushed by however many intruders there happen to be by searching for the intruder(s) for the purpose of fighting them.

Are there any tactics (i.e. any way to hold the rifle) that would make it harder for criminals to force the rifle out of my hands? Are there any rifle tactics that would make it easier to me to round the corner of the house without greatly hindering my ability to shoot quickly?

Not really, but USAF_Vet has given what is likely the best advice in Post #2.

 

[Al Thompson]

We've talked about this before. I can see it being an issue if your in a place that allows access to long guns but not handguns due to silly laws.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567363

 

[Ithaca37]

We all know that a pistol or handgun would be better for this job.

Um what? That is not true at all. A rifle offers far better terminal performance. Handguns are merely convenient to store and/or carry. A 16" barreled rifle or an SBR is not significantly longer than a handgun held with your arms outstretched.

Are there any tactics (i.e. any way to hold the rifle) that would make it harder for criminals to force the rifle out of my hands? Are there any rifle tactics that would make it easier to me to round the corner of the house without greatly hindering my ability to shoot quickly?

Do not lead through corners with your rifle and slice the pie while staying back from the wall. I suggest you take some classes to learn to use your weapon.

 

[mljdeckard]

I do not know at all that a pistol is better for the job than the rifle.

If you are concerned about how to prevent it being taken away from you, have you learned any retention techniques for a pistol? They can be stripped from you too. (Hint: the fundamentals for retention for a rifle and a pistol are pretty much the same.)

 

[txhoghunter]

The best bet to keep your muzzle from being grasped by a BG is to try to round corners wide enough that you can still be aiming the rifle. Of course, this is easier with an AR with a collapsible stock than with an A2 stock, but with training you can do both.

 

[armoredman]

I thought of leaving the stock folded, sling over the shoulder, utilize pistol grip and Crimson Trace MPV15 forgrip with laser and light, keep it off the shoulder if possible in tight corners. Of course, that would mean I would have to buy that CTG forgrip...

 

[TheAzn]

Um what? That is not true at all. A rifle offers far better terminal performance. Handguns are merely convenient to store and/or carry. A 16" barreled rifle or an SBR is not significantly longer than a handgun held with your arms outstretched.

I do not know at all that a pistol is better for the job than the rifle.

The video explains it pretty well. Start from 3:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsxbn3-2ohg

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Lower-recoiling rifle could be held with the stock over the shoulder, so you have a very short LOP (Length of Pull, distance from butt plate to trigger). This would be affected by the type and position of any sighting devices you have.

The longer the gun, the more difficult it may be to use while negotiating some tight spaces or tight corners. Without going the SBR route, some bullpups might be a good option.

However, for a lower recoil rifle, I have found that one of the easiet ways to get a typical legal length carbine to effectively be much shorter is going on top of the shoulder as you suggest, but my method does not have much affect on sighting.

With a collapsible stock AR15, I just remove the stock, leaving the recoil spring tube in place. I rest the tube on my shoulder just under the ear and have the pistol grip pulled back close to my chest. The relative position of the sights are only slightly changed and I can still get a good cheek weld on the stock. The gun is still of legal length but is effectively much shorter because the entire length of the gun isn't extended out from the shoulder.

It isn't a perfect solution, but is an option.

 

[mljdeckard]

That is one opinion. It certainly isn't the ONLY opinion. His 'expert' was a former cop. Cops are trained to use a handgun in more cases than it is actually the correct choice, mostly out of political correctness. Police departments would rather put their officers at risk than scare the sheep. He is also a former cop who is sponsored by a (wait for it) PISTOL MAKER. No one wearing a Les Baer logo is going to recommend that people buy shotguns.

Handguns are inferior tools for any job. In public, we carry them because they are a compromise in concealability and portability. In your home, you don't have to conceal it, and you won't have to carry it all day either. If you are concerned about handling a long gun in the house, get some training. If you are concerned about retention of a long gun, get some training. But DO NOT call your lack of training a reason a different gun is better for a job.

 

[CSballer89]

I think the best thing to do is:
hold the stock of the rifle close to you and down towards the ground ready to quickly pop up and engage any would be threat (note that engage does not mean shoot.)
Find somewhere that provides adequate sight without compromising cover.
Use your phone to dial authorities and put it on speaker phone so you can hold your rifle steadily.
Alert the dispatcher to what you are wearing and that you are armed with (weapon type)
Hold this position until trained help arrives. (you're neighbor who was in the Army back in 87' doesn't count)
Disarm yourself when police arrive and be prepared to give a basic floor plan of the building.
Thats the way I would hold my rifle and the tactics I would use to clear a building.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The video explains it pretty well. Start from 3:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsxbn3-2ohg

That looks like more of a training issue to me. You can avoid sticking your barrel around corners by modifying your ready position (underarm). You can also angle the barrel up or down as necessary to collapse a long gun as you work corners (and not crowding corners if you can avoid it helps as well). This helps reduce the length of the weapon as you work corners, and unless you go with a really steep angle, the business end would still be pointed at a threat given most household distances.

if you can find a training course that covers a longgun inside a shoothouse, that would probably be a good benefit for you.

Choosing the right longgun helps too - a 16" AR15 with the stock run short or an M1 carbine is about as long as a pistol held in an isoceles stance - so using the above techniques, you can make grabbing the barrel of one a very uninteresting proposition. On the other hand, if you are going to try and use a 12ga with a 26" barrel or a Mosin-Nagant, there is only so much that technique can compensate.

 

[Jeff White]

We all know that a pistol or handgun would be better for this job.

That's why professionals who clear structures for a living use long guns as their primary weapon.

First you have to get past the notion that a long gun is not appropriate. It is, in fact it has many advantages over a handgun. I've used handguns in very tight spaces like attics, crawl spaces and closets. Everywhere else the rifle is the choice.

All you need is some training on how to use a long gun indoors. Follow Bartholomew Roberts' excellent advice and invest some money and time in good training.

Your mind is the weapon here, and with proper training the actual tool you have at hand isn't going to matter all that much.

 

[Mudinyeri]

Much of that depends on the type of rifle. If you're clearing your home (not a good idea unless you are moving to secure young children) you won't want a four foot long Mosin Nagant. Corner shooting is done in the movies, and the pray and spray method is extremely dangerous. If the rifle is on a sling, wearing it properly is one way to retain the weapon, even if its knocked from your hands, you won't lose the rifle.

In my house, I can see down the hallway to the kids' rooms from my bedroom door. Despite that, I lose sight of it as I move through the living room and have a tight corner to access the hall again. Try to avoid coming up on the corner tight against the near wall. In other words, take the corner as wide as possible.

Hold the rifle in a ready position, so if you have to take a shot, you can do so easily. Even if someone grabs the barrel of the rifle, twist towards them to force the barrel into center mass rather than away from it. If the bbl is forced up, club the assailant with the stock. If forced down, drop to a knee to level the bbl.

Clearing a house solo is not recommended, but can be required. Don't go track down a bad guy if you can avoid it. Grab the kids (I'm assuming that is why you are clearing) and hunker down with them and call the cops.

Some excellent advice.

Also, to address Jeff White's point that professionals who clear structures for a living use long guns ... there are long guns and there are long guns. Maneuvering in a tight space with a long gun that has a 30" barrel isn't the same as maneuvering in a tight space with a carbine with a 16" barrel or a shotgun with an 18.5" barrel.

Moreover, there is also a difference between breach and clear techniques when compared to "clearing" a home where you live (and are already inside and do not have a team to work with).

Training, combined with the right tools and frequent practice are the keys to success in virtually any endeavor. This is no exception.

 

[BrocLuno]

With general access to my gun safe, I would not choose a rifle. I would pull out the 12 ga pump. Starting from that perspective, the suggestions about training , sight radius, staying clear of snatch and grab scenarios and all the rest applies.

 

[Grey_Mana]

Notable that nothing in my house is cover from a rifle round.

As a hypothetical, if one really thinks a goblin is hiding just around the corner to get the jump, one could put a few rounds through the dry wall.

It is axiomatic that one must never use a gun against another, except in cases of imminent harm. A rifle could seduce a person, because it gives more opportunity to strike from safety. I've seen folks get arrested for chasing a BG out of their house (chasing makes it battery, apparently). How much worse if, in the heat of the moment, one used a rifle against a fleeing goblin.

As a corollary, one doesn't necessarily need to kill an attacker. Shooting a bad guy once might swing the risk:benefit ratio toward holing up and waiting for him to bleed/flee. The further apart you are, the more options you have.

Based on what some folks post, I can imagine a situation where one would need to move. Some folks stash guns around their house, ready to go and not secured. If a BG breaks in and knows you are there and is looking for a tool to kill you with, holing up while he finds your gun might be a flawed strategy.

 

[armoredman]

OK, being who I am, I grabbed a camera and tried it. I chose the only real choke point in the house, and used a few firearms to illustrate.
Forgive, these are not up to my usual quality due to me doing them about 5 minutes ago.

First, the longest long gun I own, the CZ 512. .22lr semi auto, unwieldy around the corner.

Much better rifle choice, the vz-58. Sling would probably not be used this way. Still a little difficult to maneuver. Note I have to use that open bathroom doorway.

How about closing the folding stock? With the foregrip it is usable - I have fired it in such a manner, and at house distances it could be accurate. BTW, I had no idea that this pic would look so absolutely corny...sorry.

Still missing something. Let's try the same corner with the Phantom. MUCH more room to move, even if I am giving up the power of the 7.62x39mm.

And the best, the one element left out of the rifles,(no extra hand!); the flashlight. $5 Walgreens cheapie multi LED, actually quite bright indoors.

So, my quick deduction, given that what little training I have in compartment clearing was 25 years ago with M14s and 870s in the Navy, and with my CURRENT setup,(no foregrip light laser for the vz-58), I would probably have to say the handgun might be my best choice here. Am I saying I can't learn how? Nope, just no time or money for fancy schools, trying to keep food on the table and gas in the car is hard enough.
Just me thinking out loud again, feel free to rip my technique/lack thereof.

 

[sm]

Three words : Training, shotgun and carbine.

I appreciate the posts of Al, Jeff, and armoredman

I understand the original poster has to use "long guns. MY concerns have always been entering/exiting a structure, and answering the door. Jeff and Al both are fully aware of "my concerns". MY primary being a handgun for such reasons. [It is on my person] Respecting the original poster and long guns:

MY "lessons-n-set-ups" had me using carbines, such as Win Mod 94 in 30-30 to shotguns including "riot" and "police' models and even "youth single shot" 12 and 20 bore. Laugh if you will, though there are those that have seen me run a single shot...

And NEVER question me with a two barrel shotgun. I own you.
*not brag- instead-fact*

Recently, I have on loan a AR, though set up for "varmint" with variable scope, I have taken great pains to get "one with the gun" for indoor duty, if need.

 

[macadore]

It seems to that a Draco with a laser would be as fast as a handgun for the first shot and faster on the second shot because you can put your thumb over the barrel and hold it down to to lessen the recoil. If you had a sling it would be difficult to take away. With a bayonet it could be used to stop someone if you got rushed.

 

[Erik]

"We all know that a pistol or handgun would be better for this job."

Another "no, we do not all know that" comment.

Erik, who clears structures and prefers to clear structures with long guns and friends with long guns. Though granted, we all have pistols should we decide to transfer out of preference or necessity.

 

[Clockwerk]

I used a AK47 with a side folding stock as my home defense rifle. Easy to maneuver and didn't have to worry about the stopping power. But I did have to worry about the back stop .

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Just me thinking out loud again, feel free to rip my technique/lack thereof.

Well, given the way the picture is taken. It is hard to see the technique. I can't tell what the threat sees and I can't tell what areas you have cleared approaching the corner because I don't know what you can see.

 

[mikerault]

Luckily my kids are grown and have moved out. Usually I will be able to hold up in my bedroom with my wife while covering the door and calling 911. The door is a solid core door that weighs in at over 50 pounds so it is relatively a pretty good shield. In my situation using the XD9mmSC is a perfect choice. That being said, if I was clearing the house I would have the XD on my hip and the Hi Point 9mm carbine to do the dirty work. It has the aimpoint and the laser and can easily be shot "from the hip" or from the shoulder. I would not want to try it with the 8mm Mauser which has the long barrel or either 12 gauge since they are both 30 inchers.

I am shopping for a 18.5 inch HD 12 gauge shotgun, once I get that, it would be the preference loaded with 00 buck and equipped with an aimpoint.