lobo9er
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rifled barreled 12 ga better than 45-70? which has more punch?
rifled barreled 12 ga better than 45-70?
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Ridgerunner665
Member
The 45-70...more velocity, better ballistics (if the range is more than a few yards).
I'm not sure about sectional density...I'm not "up to date" on the latest shotgun slugs.
I'm not sure about sectional density...I'm not "up to date" on the latest shotgun slugs.
ReloaderFred
Member
I own both. In fact, a couple of each, and I can tell you that a warm loaded .45-70 packs more punch beyond 100 yards than a 12 ga. slug does, since the slug loses it's velocity and energy very quickly. Inside of 100 yards, it may be a toss up, though.
I know my moose went down like a ton of bricks when I hit it at a little over 125 yards with a 405 gr. Remington SP loaded to a little over 1,800 fps. I wouldn't have been comfortable trying the same shot with either of my slug guns, since I had to thread the shot through the birch trees.
Hope this helps.
Fred
I know my moose went down like a ton of bricks when I hit it at a little over 125 yards with a 405 gr. Remington SP loaded to a little over 1,800 fps. I wouldn't have been comfortable trying the same shot with either of my slug guns, since I had to thread the shot through the birch trees.
Hope this helps.
Fred
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lobo9er
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I saw some 500 grain sabot slugs and was pretty impressed.
Pete D.
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choices
I'm fond of both. The 45-70, as noted above, has generally better overall performance - meaning at increasingly longer distances. Guys are doing 1000 yard matches with the old 45-70; you won't see that with shotgun slugs.
However, I'm pretty sure that you will find a better selection of "over-the-counter" shotgun slugs that are very, very powerful than you will find for the 45-70 (Buffalo Bore makes some hot 45-70s but, I suspect, most of the warm loads for that old cartridge are handloads).
Lightfield makes some slugs that will take you into the middle 3Ks in ft.lbs. Brenneke also has some very effective rounds - power and velocity. Remington, Federal, etc. make load that top 3k energy. (.30-06 energy levels are in the same range.)
Buffalo Bore and Grizzly market 45-70 ammo that is yet more powerful than any of the slug loads above - very pricey stuff some of it.
Pete
I'm fond of both. The 45-70, as noted above, has generally better overall performance - meaning at increasingly longer distances. Guys are doing 1000 yard matches with the old 45-70; you won't see that with shotgun slugs.
However, I'm pretty sure that you will find a better selection of "over-the-counter" shotgun slugs that are very, very powerful than you will find for the 45-70 (Buffalo Bore makes some hot 45-70s but, I suspect, most of the warm loads for that old cartridge are handloads).
Lightfield makes some slugs that will take you into the middle 3Ks in ft.lbs. Brenneke also has some very effective rounds - power and velocity. Remington, Federal, etc. make load that top 3k energy. (.30-06 energy levels are in the same range.)
Buffalo Bore and Grizzly market 45-70 ammo that is yet more powerful than any of the slug loads above - very pricey stuff some of it.
Pete
mbogo
Member
Within 100yds., I'd take the 12 gauge with sabot or Brenneke slugs. A 500gr. slug with a frontal diameter of .60-.70" inch is pretty impressive.
Beyond 100yds., I'd pick the .45-70 for the flatter trajectory and better 'energy' retention.
mbogo
Beyond 100yds., I'd pick the .45-70 for the flatter trajectory and better 'energy' retention.
mbogo
230therapy
Member
Go look at "Handloader" (August 2007). They have 45-70 loads for Africa. The author took Cape buffalo, zebra and other game with it.
The 45-70 has its megaload: 500 grain Buffalo Bore FMJ FN at 1,530 FPS
If you need real power, forget the shotgun. That's not to say the shotgun doesn't have its place.
The 45-70 has its megaload: 500 grain Buffalo Bore FMJ FN at 1,530 FPS
If you need real power, forget the shotgun. That's not to say the shotgun doesn't have its place.
Ridgerunner665
Member
Actually a 420 or 425 grain WFN bullet at up near 1900 fps does better than the REALLY big 45-70 slugs...the 420 grain weight class is the "sweet spot" for 45-70 bullets.
Heavy, but not too heavy...long, but not too long...yet fast enough to have basically the same trajectory of the 405 bullets.
And the 420 class bullets are no slouch at penetrating either...
It comes down to balance...the 350 and 420 grain 45-70 bullets are just that, balanced.
Heavy, but not too heavy...long, but not too long...yet fast enough to have basically the same trajectory of the 405 bullets.
And the 420 class bullets are no slouch at penetrating either...
It comes down to balance...the 350 and 420 grain 45-70 bullets are just that, balanced.
artee
Member
If you can use a rifle where you hunt, I'd pick the .45-70. A '95 Marlin handles better than any Bolt Slug gun. With a fixed barrel (screwed into receiver) Slug pump gun, it can swing back to the shotgun. Then it sorta becomes preference, and I think the pumps win (so 12 ga, here). The 12ga bolt slug guns are about as graceful as a plank. That's considering the repeaters available for handling. For accuracy, every lever 45-70 (Win or Marlin) I've seen will shoot inside 3 in at 100yd. Every Marlin 95 I've seen (and I've owned one for over 30 years) will shoot inside 2 inch at 100, and 5 inch at 200 yards--that's inside. The slug guns and loads can be quite good but it takes a long time to find the best load. At that, you might get into the sub 3 inch 100 yd area. It doesn't seem to hold to 200 as well as the 45-70 rifle, though.
One final word, which won't help your choise any, is that some sabot slug loads use the SAME bullet as used in the .45-70, the 300 gn HP, and fire it FASTER than the standard factory load. So the sabot slug can have slightly more punch and flatter trajectory. It is a small advantage, however, and getting comparable accuracy with a slug gun is a real crap shoot
One final word, which won't help your choise any, is that some sabot slug loads use the SAME bullet as used in the .45-70, the 300 gn HP, and fire it FASTER than the standard factory load. So the sabot slug can have slightly more punch and flatter trajectory. It is a small advantage, however, and getting comparable accuracy with a slug gun is a real crap shoot
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Yep! He actually took two Cape Buffalo.
With one shot!
Seems there was another one standing behind the one he shot, and the 45-70 bullet killed both of them.
Try that with a shotgun slug!
It should be noted that most 12 ga sabot slugs shoot pistol bullets inside the sabot's.
A 45-70 shoots longer & heavier rifle bullets with much better sectional density.
rc
Jason_W
Member
I have to wonder if there is more to a projectile's killing ability than raw numbers. Isn't volume of tissue destroyed more of a killer than kinetic energy?
Even a non expanding slug of .600" diameter or greater is going to wreck a lot of important stuff. A slug that expands can do mind boggling damage.
As for accuracy, you have to make an apples to apples comparison. A pump action with a slug barrel and cantilever scope mount is obviously going to lose the contest to a scoped Marlin 45-70. I would be curious to see how a top end dedicated slug gun would compete with a 45-70 out to 200 yards.
Of course, the above really would be asking a shotgun to do something it was never intended to.
Even a non expanding slug of .600" diameter or greater is going to wreck a lot of important stuff. A slug that expands can do mind boggling damage.
As for accuracy, you have to make an apples to apples comparison. A pump action with a slug barrel and cantilever scope mount is obviously going to lose the contest to a scoped Marlin 45-70. I would be curious to see how a top end dedicated slug gun would compete with a 45-70 out to 200 yards.
Of course, the above really would be asking a shotgun to do something it was never intended to.
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