We all search for the ammo that a particular rifle "likes". All of the center fire rifles I load for like a particular load. But, I noticed something today. I zeroed some rimfires today in preparation for squirrel season. Each one likes a particular ammo...one shoots CCI SV and my newest one likes Norma Tac 22. I happened to have a box of Federal Target Match, (I think they call it), what I call plinking ammo, and tried it in both of my fine .22s (Rem 541S and Mauser 201 Lux). It shot surprisingly well. Now with the other ammo, I can shoot dime size groups or smaller all day. But, the cheap ammo shot quite well; certainly well enough to hunt squirrels with. I also have two 17HMRs, an Anschutz 1517MPR and a Sako FinnFire II. I've had several cheaper .22s and 17HMRs, but found them to be less accurate and more likely to "like" only a very narrow range of ammo. All four of the rifles listed above will shoot almost anything reasonably well and sometimes very well. Have you all found this to be true too??
Rifles that shoot all ammos well??
- Thread starter Sniper66
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You ought to try to get your round counts up to 40 shots and see which ammunition is the more consistent.
These are four, five shot group targets at 50 yards, and these are good shooters.Can your ammunition do that, for 20 shots, at 50 yards?
Good barrels will shoot a wide variety of 22 lr better than crappy barrels. But at some distance, and round count, cheap ammunition shows its face.
You will find dropped, low velocity shots:
Bud of mine, this happened to him. After that match he stopped using TAC 22, started using Eley Black box, and he started shooting cleans.
troy fairweather
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yes slamfire is 100% right guns need some fouling in them to be more consistent some guns will shoot good clean most need some fouling. my rem 700 5r needed over 100 rounds to settle in same with my green mountain ruger 10-22 barrel . i have owned some guns that shoot mot ammo good and most of the i keep. then some guns are picky with ammo and some like u say seam to lie the cheap stuff.
my rossi 62 shoots good with most 22lr but the old win white box made it like the air rifle i used for the 2009 Olympics qualifier back in 2008. my rule is only clean the bore if the groups open up i use just a lightly oiled patch in between the when not using the gun.
my rossi 62 shoots good with most 22lr but the old win white box made it like the air rifle i used for the 2009 Olympics qualifier back in 2008. my rule is only clean the bore if the groups open up i use just a lightly oiled patch in between the when not using the gun.
someguy2800
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I have a few guns that are awfully picky on ammo. My savage mk2 there is a dramatic difference between ammo. Good to bad group size is probably 5X and the group center moves alot with different ammo. My cheap marlin model 60 on the other hand doesn't care what you put in the tube. Everything shoots well, none of it as good as my savage, but respectable for an economy level sporter. You could take 10 boxes of ammo and mix it all together and the marlin wouldn't care.
As for centerfire rifles my Tikka T3 in 25-06 shoot well with every bullet or factory load I've ever put in it with the exception of one, a 75 gr v max I tried handloading once. Pretty much anything shoot under 1 moa in that gun. My old savage model 12 BVSS with a CBI 1:12 223 barrel would definitely qualify. It would shoot any bullet of the correct weight with virtually any charge of powder.
As for centerfire rifles my Tikka T3 in 25-06 shoot well with every bullet or factory load I've ever put in it with the exception of one, a 75 gr v max I tried handloading once. Pretty much anything shoot under 1 moa in that gun. My old savage model 12 BVSS with a CBI 1:12 223 barrel would definitely qualify. It would shoot any bullet of the correct weight with virtually any charge of powder.
Agree, They just like to be dirty, but not crusty dirty. On an automatic I generally only clean if it stops running, on bolt guns like you said if it starts to go south or gets hard to chamber
I always clean a smallbore barrel after a match, except during regionals when I clean the thing after two days of shooting. But, I always fire two fouling shots into the berm, clean or dirty barrel. I have seen the point of impact radically change, be it rimfire rifle, or rimfire pistol, as the barrel fouls in. And, crappy barrels take longer to foul in than good barrels, and the point of impact change is greater.
cougar1717
Member
It's really about expectations of rimfire accuracy. Squirrels, cans, spinning targets are one thing and shooting paper for score is quite another.
If the expectation is to plink, most ammos will be considered reasonably well. Even if you have a rimfire rifle and ammo combination that shoots 1.5-2" groups at 50yds, everyone is going to have a good time if you're plinking. However, if a target shooter has those kind of groups, they have had a terrible day. Like Slamfire's pictures show, if you're shooting for score, you're going for the proverbial one ragged hole.
Target shooters are looking for ammos with quality components and consistent exit velocities. That is why shooting groups at paper over a chrono is the tale of the tape. I have literally put the crosshairs on the center of the target after shooting 2-4 shots that are touching. Then, after a clean trigger pull, I've watched the next shot land elsewhere, opening the group up to 3/4" or 1". What happened? At least with a chrono, you may be able to diagnose that the last shot was significantly faster or slower than the other shots (a flyer).
CCI SV, Norma Tac 22, and Federal Target are "midrange target ammos," since they are better than "bulk" but not as good as "match" - I use match loosely because ammos labeled as "match" can shoot terrible groups too. And CCI SV is really bulk ammo in little boxes - flame away - (My Fed 510 aggregate is better) haha
Midrange ammos **typically** have ES numbers that are 50-80fps and SD numbers in the mid teens to twenties - ie, it can be really consistent in small strings, but there are flyers. There is a reason that the ammo manufacturer is selling this specific lot at the "target" grade price and not the "match" grade price.
This is why lot number matters a lot and brand matters some, but isn't everything. With midrange ammos, someone, somewhere will shoot an amazing group. Who knows how many groups they had to shoot to get it, but I have seen amazing groups with CCI SV, Tac 22, Match 22, Fed 711b, SK Std+, Eley Club/Target, etc. Maybe you have a really consistent brick or box, but if you shoot enough of it (and chrono enough of it), you can see the inconsistencies.
For instance, right now, my aggregate averages for these three ammos (5 rounds at 50 yards, center to center) is:
CCI SV: 1.135"
711b: 0.941"
Tac 22: 0.813"
Within those aggregates, there are some lot numbers that have shot in the 0.4's and others that are well over an inch.
All that to say...
I have neither found a rimfire rifle that shoots every ammo well, nor have I found an ammo that works well in every rimfire rifle. Rimfire ammo is "consistently inconsistent."
Even if you bump up to Tenex, R-50, or Midas, not every rifle will shoot these well. There is a better chance for small groups, but it is not guaranteed, based on just the ammo. Just like Tenex can't make a stock 10/22 a target rifle, a target rifle probably won't shoot one holers with bulk ammo.
I have seen flyers through the scope, and what caused them, is beyond any investigative ability I have. Eley put up a chart showing all the cartridge characteristics they measure, and keep control of. It was around 80 things. Eley put that up, because they have an indoor test range in the US, and they wanted to make the case that the only way to determine good ammunition from bad, was to shoot the stuff. So they discussed such quackery as rim gauging. Rim gauging is one of those advertising induced behaviors that has a placebo effect. Someone, decades ago, claimed that sorting rimfire ammunition by rim thickness improved accuracy. When you examine the groups that are fired, they are of a small sample size. Eley put up a picture of a 600 round group, at 100 yards, that was under an inch. A 600 round group is a much better measure of consistency than some 20 shot group, or the typical five round group, which the sellers and users of rim gauges typically show as proof of the technique. Any improvement is strictly due to the placebo effect. And you will see the placebo effect every time someone buys a new trinket. The new trinket turns out the be the best thing since fresh baked bread, then it gets discarded when it becomes an old trinket, because it went stale. Both Eley and Lapua will shoot ten round groups, quickly sorting through ammunition lots, and then, test 40 rounds. Eley only tests to 50 yards, Lapua in Mesa AZ tests 50 yards and 100 yards. And, having tested at Mesa AZ, ammunition can shoot very well at 50, and not so well at 100. It is rare to find one lot that is the best of all lots at 50 yards and 100 yards. Usually one lot is slightly better at 50, another slightly better at 100 yards.
There is an excellent article at the end of the Oct 2014 Shooting Sports USA on group size and accuracy: http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_201410/ This excellent article was written by small bore shoots who want to shoot perfect scores, and each "Match" is a 40 shot match. The typical 1600 round Smallbore bore prone tournament is 160 rounds fired for record, divided up into four 40 round Matches. Therefore this article assumes that a 40 round group is the baseline.
As anyone can see in table six, at least at 100 yards, a five shot group is 59% of the size of a 40 shot group, a 10 shot 74%, and a twenty shot 88%. A three shot group is below contempt, but is the current standard for the shooting community because the leaders of the shooting community, that is in print Gunwriters, have convinced the shooting community that three shot groups are a measure of accuracy. But with rimfire ammunition, you need to get the shot group up to 40 shot averages to really have an idea of how good the stuff is. I talked with the number two guy at the Nationals, his standard is a brick. If nothing weird happens in 500 rounds, and the stuff shoots good, it probably is good. He had his rifle lot tested something like 60 times. It does take a decent round count to convince yourself
This lot of Center-X, initially I thought it was junk. I took it out, did not do well with it, decided it was junk. Then, in a meaningless club match, took it out again, and did well. Shot more of it, and it is really great stuff, wish I had bought a truck load of it. The more you shoot in precision matches, the more you find, it ain't necessarily the equipment that is shooting poorly. Sometimes, often times, it's you. But it takes time to convince yourself, that it was you that shot poorly that day, not the rig, or the ammunition. Humble pie is not sweet and it goes down hard.
I shot more ten X cleans with this lot of Black box, than any other. I am down to my last hundred or so rounds, and I am having separation anxiety.
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